US & Israel attack Iran

moomba said:
I dont think the positions are hugely different.

Most are glad that the Ayatollah has gone.

Many are concerned that America and Israel are acting contrary to international law.

All should be hopeful that there is a plan in place for what happens next.

Many of us are concerned that there isnt.
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Yeah...



...that's where I am. I don't care what Trumpy and Bibi want out of this. My concern and focus is on the oppressed people of Iran. It's up to the Iranian people themselves, just like they were calling for. Maybe some UN Peacekeepers to prevent the Revolutionary Guard murdering more of their civilians whilst agreements are decided and implemented.

My concern, is will they (The UN). Or is shaking fists current international protocol at the moment?
 
Scottyboi said:
Well when you listen to Rubios statement in full, he admits the US had to attack as Israel had already decided to carry out an operation knowing full well Iran would then attack the US.
Such weak leadership allowing a country you heavily subsidise to shoehorn you into a war.
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I did hear that the Americans only knew Israel had struck Khamenei after they told them they had already done it.
 
Palerider said:
You're saying that people are self serving hypocrites, with morals that move depending on where their political advantage is? It's amazing how quickly people turn away from the repressed when the status quo suits them isn't it. All of a sudden it's better for the world to do nothing, let's leave the repressed to their repression.
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People are alright with the Gazans fighting for their own safety and future with a terrorist organisation at its head funded and trained by Iran and the IRGC.

Yet the Persians don’t have a terrorist group, funded and trained by another nation, to stand up for them. They have taken it upon themselves as a normal society to stand up for themselves. Now they’ve got help from the USA and Israel, but that’s frowned upon by the same people who support Gazans fighting for the same thing.
 
Metal Biker said:
Yeah...



...that's where I am. I don't care what Trumpy and Bibi want out of this. My concern and focus is on the oppressed people of Iran. It's up to the Iranian people themselves, just like they were calling for. Maybe some UN Peacekeepers to prevent the Revolutionary Guard murdering more of their civilians whilst agreements are decided and implemented.

My concern, is will they (The UN). Or is shaking fists current international protocol at the moment?
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No country in their right mind would send troops into Iran in these circumstances.

Iran has a population of over 90 million people. You think "some UN peacekeepers" will be able to sort this out?

I'm not sure you've thought this through one iota.
 
Metal Biker said:
Basically. When Russia is allowed to do what it wants, yet the world imposes sanctions whilst buying it's oil and gas I tend to have little faith in the imposing of 'International Law'.

It gets bounded about like some buzzword. Fact is nobody really adheres to it. It's a nice fuzzy idea but when you have a law like that, who enforces it?
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Bang on. International Law is utterly useless because it's unenforceable. It's like shouting at a mugger who has just stolen your phone, "Stop, it's against the law".
 
roubaixtuesday said:
No country in their right mind would send troops into Iran in these circumstances.

Iran has a population of over 90 million people. You think "some UN peacekeepers" will be able to sort this out?

I'm not sure you've thought this through one iota.
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Strange, because other people have been suggesting exactly that same premise.
What's your solution?
 
.db. said:
People are alright with the Gazans fighting for their own safety and future with a terrorist organisation at its head funded and trained by Iran and the IRGC.

Yet the Persians don’t have a terrorist group, funded and trained by another nation, to stand up for them. They have taken it upon themselves as a normal society to stand up for themselves. Now they’ve got help from the USA and Israel, but that’s frowned upon by the same people who support Gazans fighting for the same thing.
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Yep. The utter hypocricy is off the scale.
 
Metal Biker said:
Strange, because other people have been suggesting exactly that same premise.
What's your solution?
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I genuinely honestly don't believe there is one, you could please 95% of the population and diaspora but that would still leave 5% of people who will see it as an affront and will form some sort of murderous outfit.

Never underestimate the stupidity of humanity by applying kindness or logic to a situation like this.
 
Palerider said:
Bang on. International Law is utterly useless because it's unenforceable. It's like shouting at a mugger who has just stolen your phone, "Stop, it's against the law".
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Yup.

Hopefully, said mugger will have a moment of reflection, to realise that their situation which has led them to stealing the phone, will cause them to rethink their action, return said phone and seek forgiveness.

That's how many people think International Law works. Fact is if the mugger wants that phone, he's stealing that phone. And the reprimands are effective as Chief Wiggum.
 
thelantern said:
I genuinely honestly don't believe there is one, you could please 95% of the population and diaspora but that would still leave 5% of people who will see it as an affront and will form some sort of murderous outfit.

Never underestimate the stupidity of humanity by applying kindness or logic to a situation like this.
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Hugs.


We need to send more hugs.
 
Scottyboi said:
Well when you listen to Rubios statement in full, he admits the US had to attack as Israel had already decided to carry out an operation knowing full well Iran would then attack the US.
Such weak leadership allowing a country you heavily subsidise to shoehorn you into a war.
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And that's what this is all about, isn't it? The US currying favours for their Middle East proxy. Has fuck all to do overthrowing a despotic tyrant and fostering peace, if it did, the US would have reined in Israel's actions against the Gazan people long ago.

It's about regional power plays and power grabs, nothing more.
 
Palerider said:
You're saying that people are self serving hypocrites, with morals that move depending on where their political advantage is? It's amazing how quickly people turn away from the repressed when the status quo suits them isn't it. All of a sudden it's better for the world to do nothing, let's leave the repressed to their repression.
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No-one is turning away from Iranians as far as I can see.
 
Palerider said:
Plenty of people are saying "let's do nothing, let's not get involved". Which I think is code for "I support the status quo"?
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No they arent. I might not want a burglar shot in the head but it doesnt mean I dont want him arrested.
 
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One complainant identified themselves as a non-commissioned officer (NCO) in a unit currently outside the Iran combat zone but in Ready-Support status, deployable at any time. The NCO said they were Christian and emailed the MRFF on behalf of 15 troops, including at least 11 Christians, one Muslim, and one Jew. (Full email printed below.)​
​
The NCO wrote to the MRFF that their commander “urged us to tell our troops that this was ‘all part of God’s divine plan’ and he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book of Revelation referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.”​
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has enshrined evangelical Christianity at the uppermost levels of the U.S. military, airing monthly prayer meetings throughout the Pentagon. Last year, the Pentagon confirmed to me that Hegseth attends a weekly White House Bible study. It’s led by a preacher who says God commands America to support Israel.​
 
Metal Biker said:
Yup.

Hopefully, said mugger will have a moment of reflection, to realise that their situation which has led them to stealing the phone, will cause them to rethink their action, return said phone and seek forgiveness.

That's how many people think International Law works. Fact is if the mugger wants that phone, he's stealing that phone. And the reprimands are effective as Chief Wiggum.
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If the alternative is to just go straight to dropping bombs on people I think I'm ok with international law.

I do think that for it to be relevant in this day and age bodies like the UN need to find a way of giving those laws some teeth.
 
Metal Biker said:
Apply that same logic (and hope) to this situation in Iran.

That's where a lot of us are at. No violence, but the regime is gone and the Iranians can build a better future for themselves.
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Didn't work for Iraq, didn't work for Afghanistan, Syria, hasn't worked for Iran considering the West have been meddling in their business to rip back control of the oil there for decades. They've been going on and on about an Iranian threat ever since the Islamic Republic took over, and it's because they ripped up their existing oil contracts & control, they wanted more information on what Iran was making out of these deals. Israel want them gone because they stand up to them, Turkey will be next. There is video evidence of Netanyahu saying that terrorism would end if we got rid of Soviet Union, changed regimes in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Iran etc and its the same lies we're falling for decades down the line. The spin is extraordinary, and people are still falling for it despite having access to endless amounts of information stores online.
 
Palerider said:
Yep. The utter hypocricy is off the scale.
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No it isn't. The Iranians live in a theocratic state that severely curtails their liberty and recently their lives. People being shot in very large numbers in the streets by the military and police. They are being killed because they are protesting against their government.

The Palestinians are not being killed by Palestinians they are being killed and displaced by a so called Western democracy. That western democracy has levelled Gaza using extraordinary levels of munitions.
This is quantatively and qualitatively different.

Both situations are appalling.
 
domalino said:
View attachment 185304



One complainant identified themselves as a non-commissioned officer (NCO) in a unit currently outside the Iran combat zone but in Ready-Support status, deployable at any time. The NCO said they were Christian and emailed the MRFF on behalf of 15 troops, including at least 11 Christians, one Muslim, and one Jew. (Full email printed below.)​
​
The NCO wrote to the MRFF that their commander “urged us to tell our troops that this was ‘all part of God’s divine plan’ and he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book of Revelation referring to Armageddon and the imminent return of Jesus Christ.”​
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has enshrined evangelical Christianity at the uppermost levels of the U.S. military, airing monthly prayer meetings throughout the Pentagon. Last year, the Pentagon confirmed to me that Hegseth attends a weekly White House Bible study. It’s led by a preacher who says God commands America to support Israel.​
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Fucking yikes

They have also sent them 5 red heifers in January. I'll let you research what that means yourself.
 
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