US Politics Thread

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The perfect fumble said:
Posting from the UK can feel like people in glass houses, so while I recognise the very real structural problems in the USA, Fogblue is Johnny on the spot and you and I are not, and that means something.

Both the UK and USA have deep-seated issues and only radical solutions can address them, but neither country is on the cusp of embracing these solutions, that is simply the reality of it, whether we like it or not.

I'll tell you the problem with progressive politics, you can't win with it. You might well say the system is rigged and it is, here and across the pond, but that isn't going to change anytime soon. So you either make peace with incrementalism, give up, or agitate to bring the system down, and if system destruction is your option then Trump is doing a lot of the heavy lifting for you.

Let's be honest, the default setting for the comfortable middle class in our country, would be a one nation Tory party led by a Blair clone and a soft Tory Labour party led by a Blair clone.

The factory setting for the comfortable middle class in the States would be a Bill Clinton lookalike for the Democrats and a Mitt Romney lookalike for the Republicans. That wouldn't solve much, but people would sleep easier in their beds and it would be a damn sight better that what they have now, and who are we to argue with that?
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Logically speaking, for a certain class of people, this would make perfect sense. But, the reality is it's not just about the class of people it works for. Incrementalism with tangibles is different than incrementalism with lip service and the latter is what Black and working class has been working with since MLK asked for wage rises for the working class!!

The working class (basically hidden society) get the worst actions of capitalism and are constantly told 'be grateful you have a job', not appreciated and thanked for the propping up of billion dollar/ pounds making corporations.

See, this is why in the US a third party is dismissed/ overlooked and even ignored (even by your own view of options for direction) when it comes to the Black and working class, but that view of third party is beginning to snowball whether centrists like it or not.

There are strikes and marches happening in the US, seemingly ignored by the US centrist contingents of this board; Amazon, miners, Med4All and Frito-Lay workers to name just a few.

Speaking of the latter company IF anyone can be arsed watching because it's me posting:



For the US, from the outside progressive view, there's a groundswell happening that MSM keep viewers away from.

As to why I'm interested in what happens in the US? Well, as I've said many times before, what happens there tends to affect what happens here and so I have vested interested as someone Black and working class.
 
Bigga said:
Logically speaking, for a certain class of people, this would make perfect sense. But, the reality is it's not just about the class of people it works for. Incrementalism with tangibles is different than incrementalism with lip service and the latter is what Black and working class has been working with since MLK asked for wage rises for the working class!!

The working class (basically hidden society) get the worst actions of capitalism and are constantly told 'be grateful you have a job', not appreciated and thanked for the propping up of billion dollar/ pounds making corporations.

See, this is why in the US a third party is dismissed/ overlooked and even ignored (even by your own view of options for direction) when it comes to the Black and working class, but that view of third party is beginning to snowball whether centrists like it or not.

There are strikes and marches happening in the US, seemingly ignored by the US centrist contingents of this board; Amazon, miners, Med4All and Frito-Lay workers to name just a few.

Speaking of the latter company IF anyone can be arsed watching because it's me posting:



For the US, from the outside progressive view, there's a groundswell happening that MSM keep viewers away from.

As to why I'm interested in what happens in the US? Well, as I've said many times before, what happens there tends to affect what happens here and so I have vested interested as someone Black and working class.
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That makes sense, I've a feeling your politics and mine are not too dissimilar, though they have grown from a different place.

The road to the world you and I want is a progressive road, a socialist road to a socialist world, where the mass of the people are more than a factor of cost, wage slaves if they're lucky.

So how do we get there?

The answer is we don't, at least not operating within the status quo.

Incrementalism, the smoke and mirrors of humanising capitalism is a fools game, it's worse than that it's a lie, one nation Toryism, compassionate capitalism, it's all bullshit to maintain the existing power structures. Capitalism is predicated on the exploitation of workers and resources and our democratic systems are loaded to ensure it continues uninterrupted.

That's not to say there aren't better states of being under the existing structures and that's where Fogblue is coming from, that's why your feud with him, with respect, is a complete waste of time.

It is possible to root for Fogblue's position, he's dealing with the here and now, how things actually work in the USA, or should I say should work, and he has very little time for your burn it all down, a curse on all their houses rhetoric.

But despite this, notwithstanding your rather strident advocacy, you are right, the system in the USA, and it's the same here, does not contain the seeds of its own salvation.

It has to go.

And if Trump and his cult are the necessary precursor to the destruction of the system in order to reach the point where, as those Socialist Worker arseholes used to say "the working class awakes and casts off the shackles of their oppressor!" Then Make America Great Again might take on a very different meaning after all.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
That makes sense, I've a feeling your politics and mine are not too dissimilar, though they have grown from a different place.

The road to the world you and I want is a progressive road, a socialist road to a socialist world, where the mass of the people are more than a factor of cost, wage slaves if they're lucky.

So how do we get there?

The answer is we don't, at least not operating within the status quo.

Incrementalism, the smoke and mirrors of humanising capitalism is a fools game, it's worse than that it's a lie, one nation Toryism, compassionate capitalism, it's all bullshit to maintain the existing power structures. Capitalism is predicated on the exploitation of workers and resources and our democratic systems are loaded to ensure it continues uninterrupted.

That's not to say there aren't better states of being under the existing structures and that's where Fogblue is coming from, that's why your feud with him, with respect, is a complete waste of time.

It is possible to root for Fogblue's position, he's dealing with the here and now, how things actually work in the USA, or should I say should work, and he has very little time for your burn it all down, a curse on all their houses rhetoric.

But despite this, notwithstanding your rather strident advocacy, you are right, the system in the USA, and it's the same here, does not contain the seeds of its own salvation.

It has to go.

And if Trump and his cult are the necessary precursor to the destruction of the system in order to reach the point where, as those Socialist Worker arseholes used to say "the working class awakes and casts off the shackles of their oppressor!" Then Make America Great Again might take on a very different meaning after all.
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I appreciate the recognition that I live in the here and now, and say what I say in part because the thread is called US Politics 2021, not the Burn It All Down thread :)

The comment on “seeds of its own salvation” though — in a democracy, if the majority of voters want significant, serious change, they’ll vote for it if it’s on offer. I’m fully aware of tremendous barriers to change in a nation that in some ways is a loose collection of 50 different small countries, and the inherent desire of those elected to office to protect their jobs as much or more than represent those who elect them.

However, one party wants to stomp on those seeds, piss on them, unearth them, put them in their own pockets because they recognize that the will of the majority of Americans run counter to their platform, a platform that is increasing narrow because that narrowness is the only way they can get their base to show up and vote for them. There's your existential threat. I would like to protect those seeds so if in future the will of the people is to significantly alter the "system" that will can be promoted and implemented.

Having said this, structurally, I have a lot of sympathy for a stacked choice priority system of elections rather than a “winner takes all” approach which better reflects the diversity of viewpoints within a representative district/state/nation.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
That makes sense, I've a feeling your politics and mine are not too dissimilar, though they have grown from a different place.

The road to the world you and I want is a progressive road, a socialist road to a socialist world, where the mass of the people are more than a factor of cost, wage slaves if they're lucky.

So how do we get there?

The answer is we don't, at least not operating within the status quo.

Incrementalism, the smoke and mirrors of humanising capitalism is a fools game, it's worse than that it's a lie, one nation Toryism, compassionate capitalism, it's all bullshit to maintain the existing power structures. Capitalism is predicated on the exploitation of workers and resources and our democratic systems are loaded to ensure it continues uninterrupted.

That's not to say there aren't better states of being under the existing structures and that's where Fogblue is coming from, that's why your feud with him, with respect, is a complete waste of time.

It is possible to root for Fogblue's position, he's dealing with the here and now, how things actually work in the USA, or should I say should work, and he has very little time for your burn it all down, a curse on all their houses rhetoric.

But despite this, notwithstanding your rather strident advocacy, you are right, the system in the USA, and it's the same here, does not contain the seeds of its own salvation.

It has to go.

And if Trump and his cult are the necessary precursor to the destruction of the system in order to reach the point where, as those Socialist Worker arseholes used to say "the working class awakes and casts off the shackles of their oppressor!" Then Make America Great Again might take on a very different meaning after all.
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Let me just say YET AGAIN, there is no 'our feud'. His lunatic rantings are because I suggested open mindedness and logical conclusion in teaching about the world of life and politics rather than shove a viewpoint down the throat of a growing teen and he saw his arse. He feuds with with me.

He doesn't want to communicate, he can do one with his merry little band.

Subject done, there.

My only real question is why you would believe to give something tangible is equating it to 'burning down the system'?

This is a flawed optic brought about by misinformation, misdirection, fear and the MSM bellowing those views through their microphones.

If the MSM were true journos, they'd freely tell people the pros and cons of M4A, capitalism, war and oligarchy, but they don't, won't or can't.

If the MSM decided to say "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!", do you not think its viewers wouldn't end up saying the same thing? It's why the rich decide the news; for that very power.

I may have veered off a touch, but I want to add this, if the people got tangibles, there'd be less and less reason for protest and, would actually, develop a middle ground most of them could work with and on with their fellow civilian.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
This is a very tough watch if you’re any kind of a human being. This is the depth of desperation and depravity the cult’s acolytes will sink to ignore and avoid the truth.

This scumbag is also a convicted criminal. I don’t take advice from convicted criminals.

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I can’t actually watch that **** any more. What’s weird is that he has no idea how much disdain for him people like the Trumps actually have for him.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
This is a very tough watch if you’re any kind of a human being. This is the depth of desperation and depravity the cult’s acolytes will sink to ignore and avoid the truth.

This scumbag is also a convicted criminal. I don’t take advice from convicted criminals.

Click to expand...

This anal bead claims footage of Jan 6th was 'doctored' and the officers are 'acting'. D'Souza is just blatantly lying.

How f*cked is a society that people actually fall for this shit?
 
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