US Politics Thread

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I wonder if they will.

There's a lot of states who elected Biden who're going to suddenly find abortion made illegal or effectively illegal.

There has to be a point where the Democrats realise this is just the first step in 40 year judicial careers for Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and ACB. As Torres has pointed out, they and their supporters find contraception to be murder just as much as abortion, and god knows where they'll go after that in their campaign to bring the country back to 1950.
The bizarre origins of the Right Wing evangelical war on abortion have been well documented, nowhere better than in Jon Ronson's Radio 4 Programme 'Things Fell Apart' (‎Things Fell Apart by Jon Ronson: 1,000 Dolls on Apple Podcasts) - Well worth a listen.

If the SC goes against the original Roe v Wade ruling, or seeks to nullify it by effectively deferring to the individual states on such matters (which is the way I'm expecting it to go) then the SC loses all credibility as an independent apolitical body.
 
The bizarre origins of the Right Wing evangelical war on abortion have been well documented, nowhere better than in Jon Ronson's Radio 4 Programme 'Things Fell Apart' (‎Things Fell Apart by Jon Ronson: 1,000 Dolls on Apple Podcasts) - Well worth a listen.

If the SC goes against the original Roe v Wade ruling, or seeks to nullify it by effectively deferring to the individual states on such matters (which is the way I'm expecting it to go) then the SC loses all credibility as an independent apolitical body.

It doesn't just lose public credibility, it loses authority.

The SC runs on the principle of Stare Decisis - standing by the previous decisions of the SC unless a series of explicit marks are met.

As Sotomayor pointed out yesterday 52 Supreme Court Justices have upheld Roe v Wade, and these 5 right win judges think they should wipe out all of their predecessors decisions.

After they do that, the SC becomes a body that simply changes the laws to whatever the majority of the current bench believe in at any point in time.

And that's the most bizarre thing for me, because they're opening the door to overrule everything, and for everything they decide to be overruled as soon as the right wing loses control of the court.
 
It doesn't just lose public credibility, it loses authority.

The SC runs on the principle of Stare Decisis - standing by the previous decisions of the SC unless a series of explicit marks are met.

As Sotomayor pointed out yesterday 52 Supreme Court Justices have upheld Roe v Wade, and these 5 right win judges think they should wipe out all of their predecessors decisions.

After they do that, the SC becomes a body that simply changes the laws to whatever the majority of the current bench believe in at any point in time.

And that's the most bizarre thing for me, because they're opening the door to overrule everything, and for everything they decide to be overruled as soon as the right wing loses control of the court.
Exactly - The ONLY thing that has change since Roe is the composition of the SC which is not a valid reason to revisit the original ruling.
 
Weird how that intellectually fraudulent little troll was unaware of what’s been happening this week with the SC isn’t it?
Oh Lawd! I wasn't trolling. And what's with all the name calling. Tot you were past that.

Your tweet sounded like a Justice or the Court
had said something or indicated something i.e. "The Supreme Court is sending a message back."

Do you seriously think we'd believe you're oblivious to what the Supreme Court is doing this week?
Listening to arguments? That wasn't the impression SWP's tweet gave. But then again the propensity for hyperbole is a feature of Twitter.

Perhaps that's what I was pointing out. But hey we could roll with your strawman too :)
 
It doesn't just lose public credibility, it loses authority.

The SC runs on the principle of Stare Decisis - standing by the previous decisions of the SC unless a series of explicit marks are met.

As Sotomayor pointed out yesterday 52 Supreme Court Justices have upheld Roe v Wade, and these 5 right win judges think they should wipe out all of their predecessors decisions.

After they do that, the SC becomes a body that simply changes the laws to whatever the majority of the current bench believe in at any point in time.

And that's the most bizarre thing for me, because they're opening the door to overrule everything, and for everything they decide to be overruled as soon as the right wing loses control of the court.
What are the series of explicit marks that needs to be met?
 
What are the series of explicit marks that needs to be met?
The explicit marks are individual to the case in question, and basically boil down to the original argument (in this case the 14th Amendments 'Due process' clause). If the fundamental agreed points of the original argument haven't changed you can't then revisit the ruling just because the political landscape has changed because that would simply be playing politics with the law.
 
What are the series of explicit marks that needs to be met?

Its not codified but the standard is the Ohio Supreme Courts test.

1) The decision was wrongly decided at the time or changes in circumstances no longer justify continued adherence to the decision.

2) The decision defies practical workability

3) Abandoning the precedent would not create an undue hardship on those relying on it.

NB "wrongly decided" in point 1 is not a matter of opinion, there needs to be some sort of proof the facts were wrong for example Plessy v Ferguson relied on the principle of separate but equal for enforcing segregation so it was overturned because in Brown vs Board of Education Thurgood Marshall proved that separate but equal was bullshit.

Sotomayor pointed out this week that this meets none of those standards and the lawyers for Missisippi have shown no reason to overturn Roe or Casey except they dont like it.
 
Its not codified but the standard is the Ohio Supreme Courts test.

1) The decision was wrongly decided at the time or changes in circumstances no longer justify continued adherence to the decision.

2) The decision defies practical workability

3) Abandoning the precedent would not create an undue hardship on those relying on it.

Good start. As you've highlighted some already, the Supreme Court has over time relied on a set of standards when overturning precedent. Those standards include:
1) the quality of the past decision's reasoning,

2) Workability Standard: Whether the standards are too difficult for lower courts or other stakeholders to follow or apply.

3 How consistency the ruling is with related decisions,

4) legal developments since the past decision (i.e. changed understanding of the relevant facts) , and

5) reliance on the decision throughout the legal system and society.

And at times the court has claimed the above aren't the only considerations, but we've seen one or more of the above consistently.

NB "wrongly decided" in point 1 is not a matter of opinion, there needs to be some sort of proof the facts were wrong for example Plessy v Ferguson relied on the principle of separate but equal for enforcing segregation so it was overturned because in Brown vs Board of Education Thurgood Marshall proved that separate but equal was bullshit.
In Brown's overturning of Plessy it wasn't that 'the facts were wrong' and Marshall proved "SBE to be bullshit." Rather it was an application the aforementioned above considerations.

Specifically 1, 2 and 4 above. I.e (1) the quality of the past reasoning was deemed poor because there had been a (4) changed understanding of the relevant facts. That changed understanding partly rested on the psychological effects of inferiority complex that separation by race created even under conditions where the provisions were deemed equal.

That consideration amongst others led the Justices to this new understanding after examining works of psychologists and behavioral health experts on the matter.

Secondly it also noted that the separate was often not equal ( This by the way touches on both 1 and 2. The workability of determining whats equal was going to be cumbersome.

Now how does this impact Roe?
Sotomayor pointed out this week that this meets none of those standards and the lawyers for Missisippi have shown no reason to overturn Roe or Casey except they dont like it.
In Roe, rhe viability standard is what's being directly challenged by Dobbs. Even if the lawyers bringing the challenge have now pulled a bait and switch in their argument to try to overturn Roe altogether.

Mississippi's law really challenges the viability standard in Roe by setting a no abortion after 15 weeks law. The viability standard has always been arbitrary and likely a gets overturned

That said, Sotomayor does have a point that in most cases where the court has overturned precedent, it had done so in cases where it originally sided with the State over matters of individual liberty. And that won't be the case here.

Personally, I think CJ Roberts has the right thinking... Strike down viability as the standard cutoff for where a State's interest might exist but uphold the Woman's Rights to abortion under Roe.

Hopefully he can convince Barrett to join him. As it seems Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are all ready to overturn the legal fiction of Privacy right to Abortion found in the substantive due process clause of the 14th Amendment.
 
The explicit marks are individual to the case in question, and basically boil down to the original argument (in this case the 14th Amendments 'Due process' clause). If the fundamental agreed points of the original argument haven't changed you can't then revisit the ruling just because the political landscape has changed because that would simply be playing politics with the law.
Ah yes, I get this. I think Domalino was closer to the point I was getting at. I.e. understanding what those factors are that the Court considers when it overturns precedence. And how those factors may be applied to Roe.


Soma just mentioned there were factors and then blew past them.without mentioning what they were and how they've been used before and may be used in future.

I understand most of the discussion here was about the political ramifications. But I thought delving into the legal interplay was equally as important if not more so.
 
Abortion rights in the USA are about to be outlawed/severely-restricted in about 1/2 the states in the USA
 
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