US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[BlueHammer85]

Has he phoned his buddy in Russia to stop the war yet or has he got a couple of cheeseburgers to stuff in his face and rounds of Golf booked up first

 

[Middedon]

I wonder what will become of the Republicans against Trump crowd. Will they join the Democrats, start up Republicans against Vance/Trump Jr, start a new party, walk away from politics.

Assuming you mean Never Trumpers? I have a few family members that worked in the Bush White House and are still close with the family. They are youngish now with young children and still work in DC. My understanding is they typically vote for moderate candidates when on the ballot but do not vote for Trump supported candidates.

 

[M23 Citizen]

Unlike the republicans who were endorsed by Jon Voight, Russel Brand, Dennis Quaid, Mel Gibson, Kid Rock, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, Mike Tyson and Hulk Hogan struggling to rip of his shirt at every rally.

Trump fans love these people though.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

There have been some excellent opinion pieces this morning, but this one struck me, because it lays plain the truth for supposed educated people like myself, who believe “we” are America and the America others should strive to be.

It is, to me, a sad, yet true, indictment of America 2024, and what she has raised, which is easier for me to say, because Britannia raised me.


By Carlos Lozada
Opinion Columnist, New York Times

I remember when Donald Trump was not normal.
I remember when Trump was a fever that would break.
I remember when Trump was running as a joke.
I remember when Trump was best covered in the entertainment section.
I remember when Trump would never become the Republican nominee.
I remember when Trump couldn’t win the general election.
I remember when Trump’s attacks on John McCain were disqualifying.
I remember when Trump’s “Access Hollywood” tape would force him out.
I remember when Trump was James Comey’s fault.
I remember when Trump was the news media’s fault.
I remember when Trump won because Hillary Clinton was unlikable.
I remember when 2016 was a fluke.
I remember when the office of the presidency would temper Trump.
I remember when the adults in the room would contain him.
I remember when the Ukraine phone call went too far.
I remember when Trump learned his lesson after the first impeachment.
I remember when Jan. 6 would be the end of Trump’s political career.
I remember when the 2022 midterms meant the country was moving on.

I remember when Trump’s indictments would give voters pause.
I remember when Trump’s felony convictions would give voters pause.
I remember when Trump would win because Joe Biden was old.
I remember when Kamala Harris’s joy would overpower Trump’s fearmongering.
I remember when Trump was weird.
I remember when Trump was not who we are.

There have been so many attempts to explain away Trump’s hold on the nation’s politics and cultural imagination, to reinterpret him as aberrant and temporary. “Normalizing” Trump became an affront to good taste, to norms, to the American experiment.

We can now let go of such illusions. Trump is very much part of who we are. Nearly 63 million Americans voted for him in 2016. Seventy-four million did in 2020. And now, once again, enough voters in enough places have cast their lot with him to return him to the White House. Trump is no fluke, and Trumpism is no fad.

After all, what is more normal than a thing that keeps happening?

In recent years, I’ve often wondered if Trump has changed America or revealed it. I decided that it was both — that he changed the country by revealing it. After Election Day 2024, I’m considering an addendum: Trump has changed us by revealing how normal, how truly American, he is.

Throughout Trump’s life, he has embodied every national fascination: money and greed in the 1980s, sex scandals in the 1990s, reality television in the 2000s, social media in the 2010s. Why wouldn’t we deserve him now?

At first, it seemed hard to grasp that we’d really done it. Not even Trump seemed to believe his victory that November night in 2016. We had plenty of excuses, some exculpatory, some damning. The hangover of the Great Recession. Exhaustion with forever wars. A racist backlash against the first Black president. A populist surge in America and beyond. Deaths of despair. If not for this potent mix, surely no one like Trump would ever have come to power.

If only the Clinton campaign had focused more on Wisconsin. If only African American turnout had been stronger in Michigan. If only WikiLeaks and private servers and “deplorables” and so much more. If only.

Now we’ll come up with more, no matter how contradictory or consistent they may be. If only Harris had been more attuned to the suffering in Gaza, or more supportive of Israel. If only she’d picked Josh Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania, as her running mate. If only the lingering fury over Covid had landed at Trump’s feet. If only Harris hadn’t been so centrist, or if only she weren’t such a California progressive, hiding all those positions she’d let slip in her 2019 campaign. If only Biden hadn’t waited so long to withdraw from the race, or if only he hadn’t mumbled stuff about garbage.

Harris decried Trump as a fascist, a petty tyrant. She called him divisive, angry, aggrieved. And that was a smart case to make if, deep down, most voters held democracy dear (except maybe they didn’t) and if so many of them weren’t already angry (except they were). If all America needed was an articulate case for why Trump was bad, then Harris was the right candidate with the right message at the right moment. The prosecutor who would defeat the felon.

But the voters heard her case, and they still found for the defendant. A politician who admires dictators and says he’ll be one for a day, whose former top aides regard as a threat to the Constitution — a document he believes can be “terminated” when it doesn’t suit him — has won power not for one day but for nearly 1,500 more. What was considered abnormal, even un-American, has been redefined as acceptable and reaffirmed as preferable.

The Harris campaign, as the Biden campaign before it, labored under the misapprehension that more exposure to Trump would repel voters. They must simply have forgotten the mayhem of his presidency, the distaste that the former president surely inspired. “I know Donald Trump’s type,” Harris reminded us, likening him to the crooks and predators she’d battled as a California prosecutor. She even urged voters to watch Trump’s rallies — to witness his line-crossing, norm-obliterating moments — as if doing so would inoculate the electorate against him.

It didn’t. America knew his type, too, and it liked it. Trump’s disinhibition spoke to and for his voters. He won because of it, not despite it. His critics have long argued that he is just conning his voters — making them feel that he’s fighting for them when he’s just in it for himself and his wealthy allies — but part of Trump’s appeal is that his supporters recognize the con, that they feel that they’re in on it.

Trump has long conflated himself with America, with the ambitions of its people. “When you mess with the American dream, you’re on the fighting side of Trump,” he wrote in “The America We Deserve,” published in 2000.

The Democrats tried hard to puncture those fantasies in this latest campaign. They raised absurd amounts of cash. They pushed the incumbent president, the standard-bearer of their party, out of the race, once it became clear he would not win. They replaced him with a younger, more dynamic candidate who proceeded to trounce Trump in their lone presidential debate.

None of it was enough. America had voted early, long before any mail-in ballots were available, and it has given Trump the “powerful mandate” he claimed in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

This time, that choice came with full knowledge of who Trump is, how he behaves in office and what he’ll do to stay there. He hasn’t just shifted the political consensus on a set of policy positions, though by moving both parties on trade and immigration, he certainly has done that. The rationalization of 2016 — that Trump was a protest vote by desperate Americans trying to send a message to the establishment of both parties — is no longer operative. The grotesque rally at Madison Square Garden, that carnival of insults against everyone that the speakers do not want in their America, was not an anomaly but a summation. It was Trumpism’s closing argument, and it landed.

The irony of one of the more common critiques of Harris — that her “word salad” moments and default platitudes in extended interviews made it hard to know what she believed — is that Trump manages to seem real even when his positions shift and his words weave. Authenticity does not require consistency or clarity when it is grounded in pitch-perfect cynicism.

We don’t call this period “the Trump era” just because the once and future president won lots of votes and has now prevailed in two presidential contests. It remained the Trump era even when Biden exiled him to Mar-a-Lago for four years. It is the Trump era because Trump has captured not just a national party but also a national mood, or at least enough of it. And when Democrats presented the choice this year as a referendum on Trumpism more than an affirmative case for Harris, they kept their rival at the center of American politics.
Harris gave it away whenever she called on voters to “turn the page” from Trump. Didn’t we do that in 2020 when we chose Biden and Harris? Not really. Trump was still waiting in the epilogue.

For those who have long insisted that Trump is “not who we are,” that he does not represent American values, there are now two possibilities: Either America is not what they thought it was, or Trump is not as threatening as they think he is. I lean to the first conclusion, but I understand that, over time, the second will become easier to accept. A state of permanent emergency is not tenable; weariness and resignation eventually win out. As we live through a second Trump term, more of us will make our accommodations. We’ll call it illiberal democracy, or maybe self-care.

“We’re not going back,” Harris told us. The tragedy is not that this election has taken us back, but that it shows how there are parts of America’s history that we’ve never fully gotten past.

In her book “America for Americans,” Erika Lee argues that Trump’s immigration policies and statements are part of a long tradition of xenophobia — against Southern Europeans, against newcomers from Asia, Latin America and the Middle East — a tradition that has lived alongside our self-perception as a nation of immigrants. In his book “The End of the Myth,” Greg Grandin warned of the “nationalization of border brutalism” under Trump, whereby harsh policies at the U.S.-Mexico border would spread elsewhere, an “extremism turned inward, all-consuming and self-devouring.”
When Trump first began his ascent into presidential politics, some readers turned to Sinclair Lewis’s 1935 novel, “It Can’t Happen Here,” about homegrown authoritarianism in the United States. In the story, Doremus Jessup, a liberal-minded newspaper editor, marvels at the power of Buzz Windrip, a crudely charismatic demagogue who captivates the country and imposes totalitarian rule. The stylistic similarities between Trump and Windrip are evident, but Lewis’s real protagonists are the well-meaning, liberal-minded citizens, like Jessup, who couldn’t quite bring themselves to grasp what was happening.

Jessup tells his readers that the insanity won’t last, that they can wait it out. “He simply did not believe that this comic tyranny could endure,” Lewis wrote. When it does endure, Jessup blames himself and his class for their obliviousness. “If it hadn’t been one Windrip, it’d been another. … We had it coming, we Respectables,” he laments.

For too long, today’s Respectables have insisted on Trump’s abnormality. It is a reflex, a defense mechanism, as though accepting his ordinariness is too much to bear. Because if Trump is normal, then America must be, too, and who wants to be roused from dreams of exceptionalism? It’s more comforting to think of Trumpism as a temporary ailment than a pre-existing condition.

When Hillary Clinton describedhalf of Trump’s supporters as a “basket of deplorables” in September of 2016, she did more than dismiss a massive voting bloc and confirm her status as a Respectable in good standing. What she said about those voters moments later was even more telling: “Some of those folks, they are irredeemable. But, thankfully, they are not American.”

It’s a neat move: Rather than accept what America was becoming and who Americans could become, just write them out of the story.

Are we what we say, or what we do — are we our actions or our aspirations? From America’s earliest moments, we have lived this tension between ideals and reality. It may seem more honest to dismiss our words and focus on our deeds. But our words also matter; they reveal what we hope to do and who we want to be. That yearning remains vital, no matter in what direction our national reality points.

The way to render Trump abnormal is not to insist that he is, or to find more excuses, or to indulge in the great and inevitable second-guessing of Democratic campaign strategy. It begins by recognizing that who we are is decided not only on Election Day — whether 2024 or 2016, or 2028 for that matter — but every day. Every day that we strive to be something other than what we’ve become.

I remember when I thought Trump wasn’t normal. But now he is, no matter how fiercely I cling to that memory.

-/-/-/-

To that, I can only say, “I thought we were better, deeper, more enlightened, than that. However, tens of millions of Americans looked into the mirror and saw an overly bronzed, soon to be octogenarian, insurrectionist, rapist and convicted felon looking back at them, and thought, ‘Yep, that’s my guy!’”

I have long said humans are animals, and if you scratch their thin veneer of supposed civilization, you expose the animal within. For millions of Americans, I consider Trump the scratcher of that veneer, but I remain glad I have never had that itch!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Articulated brilliantly however it’s easy to slag off Harris campaign after the result - I personally felt she was doing all the right things, positive, hardly any gaffes,smashed Trump in the head to head debate.
If she had focused on the economy progressing and job sector doing well no one would have cared.

Trump won on lies, misinformation and being a WWE figure that ‘owns the libs’, can ‘Make America Great Again’ and is against the ‘Mainstream Media’ all backed by the worlds richest man pumping constant propaganda for Trump on the biggest social media platform. I don’t think a Harris change of philosophy for her campaign would have made any difference .

This

 

[moomba]

I think you are changing the claim a little.

Harris qas a terrible speaker. Who was running as the candidate for the incumbency that 72% of voters thought was on the wrong track.

That alone should have given most pause. But everyone ( here especially) just spent their time on the guy who wasn't currently in office.

Go figure!

Yes, we know you don't think Harris was a good candidate but that really has nothing to do with the topic bring discussed.

 

[Nellies left peg]

Has he phoned his buddy in Russia to stop the war yet or has he got a couple of cheeseburgers to stuff in his face and rounds of Golf booked up first

He’s got a spray tan booked and treatment on his injured ear which seems to have made a miraculous recovery with not a mark on it

 

[moomba]

The exact same average number of Republicans voted against Trump as the number that normally does.

I could not believe how many people believed in the Never Trumper Crew. There are even fewer of them than the Palestine Left anti Kamala voter

Yes, we know you don't like the people that don't like Trump.

But you didn't really address the question.

 

[Dax777]

I should clarify that I don’t think white men are the ONLY sub group that performs for Trump, but they vote for Trump at a higher rate than any other subgroup. And with two teenage boys, I see their attempted radicalization in the content they consume everyday.

Fair enough..

 

[KS55]

What will Trump do? In no particular order:
- For federal crimes he may pardon himself if that is possible. Otherwise he will simply tell the DOJ to drop the cases.
- State crimes he can do nothing about but you can’t imagine those states mounting a trial while he is president. They will just lie on the file for the duration and probably wither away.
- Pardon the J6 rioters.
- Pardon Bannon who faces further indictments.
- He won’t replace Obamacare because he only has the concepts of a plan, which are nine years old. He may narrow its application.
- Social security, no idea what he will do there. He will try to reduce the cost.
- New mothers and entrepreneurs will not get the benefits Harris promised.
- Chips Act will remain as there are Republican governors whose constituents have benefitted.
- Foreign policy is the big one. Ukraine likely to be left in the lurch and he will try to impose an agreement under which Russia keeps the occupied land. Zelinsky won’t play. Europe unlikely to step into the breach. Zelinsky may use US weapons on Moscow. Danger here.
Israel given a green light to ‘finish the job.’
- Tariffs at a lowish level to avoid a trade war and domestic price increases.
-Anything else?