VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

A schism is definitely needed in football, as I don't see how the current state of affairs is sustainable. Not only is VAR expensive, but it's impractical and has taken resources away from other important areas of football. This causes systemic dysfunction and just a general unease throughout the sport. And curiously there seems to be a kind of red tape protecting VAR from being removed.

VAR is just so utterly counter productive and problematic, whatever benefits it brings does not stack up to the amount of problems that it creates. I mean I get the theoretical desire to have a fail safe mechanism to prevent the rare howler, but what they've created through that idea is a kind of a monster that hovers over football.

And I was just thinking about this in the sense that what VAR does is that it tries to normalize the idea that getting it right the first time isn't a big deal as long as a wrong is then corrected. And that's really the wrong mantra to have. Referees need to be urged to get it right the first time, and to not look back. If you're constantly looking over your shoulder, if you're constantly second guessing yourself, you can't be confident in your decision-making. Thinking that you need help when you're more than equipped to do the job yourself is just a recipe for disaster. And when they screw up, they'll hear about it, and that's part of how tough it is to be a ref. But they're paid well for having such a difficult job. But their job has been made much more difficult with VAR, having to second-guess themself and be told they are wrong when another set of eyeballs thinks they messed up, it's gotta be insulting to have your decisions questioned in such a public way. They're supposed to be the sole arbitrator, and to use an analogy, VAR really is like having too many cooks in the kitchen.

Just seeing a ref run over to a monitor like a little school boy being scolded by a teacher, it's so demeaning. I just can't believe that they would tolerate such a thing to be normalized. It's public humiliation for a referee to be whisked away to a little monitor, only to then be guided through how to interpret an incident, as though he's too stupid to make the decision on his own. I don't know how anyone in their right mind could have ever envisioned this sort of thing ever being part of football.

If someone would have come up to you 10 or 15 years ago and described such a thing, any fan of football would laugh and think you were crazy for even suggesting such a thing. But yet here we are with this sort of thing being pushed and pushed despite any and all resistance to it, by fans, players and managers. It's as if football has been hijacked and is being held ransom by VAR, and none of us deserve seeing football reduced in such a way. Fans need to demand that VAR be brought to its knees, and taken out of football. And yeah, dominos can fall but only after that first domino is pushed over. We've seen the Scandinavian countries have voiced strong opposition to it. Sweden successfully rejected VAR, whilst Norway followed suit in a preliminary vote, only for a second vote to occur to overrule it.

And to understand what happened there in Norway with the VAR vote, then the reversal, I highly recommend listening to this podcast :



He gives a first hand account to what happened there, how corrupt the whole process was, with the pro-VARers essentially throwing money at smaller clubs in exchange for them voting VAR to overrule those who voted against. It also really gives you a sense of how VAR subjective their decisions are, whilst they try to pretend as if they know it's accurate.

I would love to know the money involved because it all seems very financially driven. A lot of business-like targets and objectives measures, its as if they are trying to justify it all the time, feels like they have a performance curve to meet. Its just totally wrong approach because what people do is bend facts to meet bonus targets. And thats deffo what I see.

Every now and then some ex ref comes out to defend it, show how well it is doing. Of course it is their measures and always shows VAR in a positive light despite the facts showing the opposite.

But, look at where we are now. Football officiating has regressed (Unless you believe the VAR propaganda). We wanted them to stop the Lampard non-goals, the hand of god....... They have changed the face of refereeing. Not what we asked for or wanted.
 
Do Clubs have one of their officials overseeing things in the VAR room ? If not, then why not,
There is no way VAR looked at the handball at the weekend or used all the replays they have

For me and everybody else, is it a stone wall pen ? Even the Forest players knew and was shocked that it was not given
When you stop a goal-scoring chance with your hand, how can it not be given, its even a straight red?
Look, it didn't cost us the game, and we scored from the corner, but should it have been brushed under the carpet

BIG, clear and obvious errors can not happen within VAR at stages like the FA semi-final ? Why have it in place if the rules are not applied and the right decision given, Questions can be Asked when Grealish's handball in the final was given and this at the weekend wasn't
 
ha, nope! I just don't wish for a return of the type of officiating prior VAR. I have hellish memories of it whereas everyone seems to have nostalgic positive views that it was all better. horses for courses and all that.
No, now we have been given the alternative the majority deem human error, in real time is acceptable. Human error, after a bunch of numpties watch something back for 5 minutes, and still getting it wrong. Isn't acceptable. Look at our pen not given on Sunday.
 
No, now we have been given the alternative the majority deem human error, in real time is acceptable. Human error, after a bunch of numpties watch something back for 5 minutes, and still getting it wrong. Isn't acceptable. Look at our pen not given on Sunday.

The truth is what the VAR team is looking at depends on the club, Manchester City will get done over at every chance we give the VAR officials to put one over us, VAR reviews like the handball at the weekend was a joke, but Villa at home, when Dias so-called foul on a Villa player was slow down and the worst replay shown, joke
 
VAR has gone to great lengths to propel VARcelona into 1st place in La Liga. VARcelona has receieved more favorable VAR decisions than any club in La Liga, whilst Real Madrid has had more VAR interventions go against them than any club in La Liga. And despite this they remain only 4 points off. If VAR wasn't helping VARcelona as much as they have, it would be Real Madrid in position to win the league and by a good amount. Instead they sit in 2nd place.

They might as well just give the trophy to VAR, seeing that the table is largely based on their interventions and decisions.




Criticism is mounting against Spain’s Referees’ Technical Committee (CTA), particularly its president Luis Medina Cantalejo, who has long argued that VAR should intervene sparingly, especially on so-called “soft penalties.” Medina Cantalejo has repeated that “VAR should serve as a safety net for clear and obvious errors”, but grey-area decisions remain frequent.

Sound familiar?

Several factors explain this season’s surge in VAR activity. One reason, insiders admit, is that referees are missing more calls on the pitch than in previous seasons, including red-card offenses, which are the hardest to spot live.

Another major factor is the semi-automated offside technology, which detects player positions with greater precision. This has led to more offside decisions being corrected – 36 goals overturned for incorrect offside calls so far, compared to just 22 last season.

Clubs protest: Madrid and Villarreal lead the charge Despite VAR’s heightened involvement, frustration centers on when the system doesn’t intervene. After the most recent round, Real Madrid and Villarreal voiced outrage over controversial decisions.

Madrid demanded a penalty review for a challenge on Jude Bellingham, but VAR declined to call referee Martínez Munuera to the monitor. The club’s in-house media, Real Madrid TV, accused the league of trying to “push Madrid out of LaLiga.”
“This is third-world officiating,” Madrid TV fumed, citing FIFA’s exclusion of Spanish referees from the upcoming Club World Cup as further proof of distrust. They also criticized the disallowed goal by Vinicius Jr., flagged for a marginal offside by Endrick.
 
VAR stats fuel Madrid’s claims of bias

Real Madrid’s complaints aren’t just emotional – the numbers tell a story. Barcelona has benefitted from 13 favorable VAR decisions, tied for the most in LaLiga with Athletic Bilbao, while facing only six interventions against. By contrast, Real Madrid has endured 15 VAR calls against them, with only six going in their favor – the worst net balance in the league, matched only by Alavés. The seven-point swing this season caused by VAR decisions would leave Madrid seven points better off without it, while Barcelona would sit five points lower.

As VAR navigates a sea of controversy, the 2024–25 LaLiga season looks poised to end with record-breaking intervention numbers – but more scrutiny than ever. And whether or not the decisions are correct, well, that’s another matter...
 
Do Clubs have one of their officials overseeing things in the VAR room ? If not, then why not,
There is no way VAR looked at the handball at the weekend or used all the replays they have

For me and everybody else, is it a stone wall pen ? Even the Forest players knew and was shocked that it was not given
When you stop a goal-scoring chance with your hand, how can it not be given, its even a straight red?
Look, it didn't cost us the game, and we scored from the corner, but should it have been brushed under the carpet

BIG, clear and obvious errors can not happen within VAR at stages like the FA semi-final ? Why have it in place if the rules are not applied and the right decision given, Questions can be Asked when Grealish's handball in the final was given and this at the weekend wasn't

I watched the Rags game earlier that afternoon & we were constantly told VAR were looking at things. They were desperate to get involved for the Rags.

It’s fucking clear & organised but I still want VAR, it was bent before but this proves it.
 
ha, nope! I just don't wish for a return of the type of officiating prior VAR. I have hellish memories of it whereas everyone seems to have nostalgic positive views that it was all better. horses for courses and all that.
Hellish memories? I can understand the feeling of being haunted and troubled by memories of feeling hard done by officiating, but that feeling has not been alleviated by VAR now has it? There's more controversy with VAR than there ever was before, on a match to match basis there's controversy after controversy. Look at the La Liga table. How do you think Real Madrid feels? They would be on their way to the Title if it wasn't for VAR.

Theoretically we all want there to be a failsafe to prevent a howler. But what we have observed since VAR has been introduced which is abundantly clear by now is that it is too difficult for the powers that be to implement the kind of system you or many of us may envision without it causing additional controversy and disruption to the match.

The "hellish memories" you have of the past you may well be exaggerating, but you may well be truly haunted by past decisions. But that doesn't justify what VAR has done to football and the situation as it exists presently. What we have now with VAR is something much worse than anything that existed in football before VAR. And if you disagree with that, well you're entitled to your view, but you're very clearly in a tiny minority when it comes to fans and how fans generally view VAR.
 
VAR has gone to great lengths to propel VARcelona into 1st place in La Liga. VARcelona has receieved more favorable VAR decisions than any club in La Liga, whilst Real Madrid has had more VAR interventions go against them than any club in La Liga. And despite this they remain only 4 points off. If VAR wasn't helping VARcelona as much as they have, it would be Real Madrid in position to win the league and by a good amount. Instead they sit in 2nd place.

They might as well just give the trophy to VAR, seeing that the table is largely based on their interventions and decisions.




Criticism is mounting against Spain’s Referees’ Technical Committee (CTA), particularly its president Luis Medina Cantalejo, who has long argued that VAR should intervene sparingly, especially on so-called “soft penalties.” Medina Cantalejo has repeated that “VAR should serve as a safety net for clear and obvious errors”, but grey-area decisions remain frequent.

Sound familiar?

Several factors explain this season’s surge in VAR activity. One reason, insiders admit, is that referees are missing more calls on the pitch than in previous seasons, including red-card offenses, which are the hardest to spot live.

Another major factor is the semi-automated offside technology, which detects player positions with greater precision. This has led to more offside decisions being corrected – 36 goals overturned for incorrect offside calls so far, compared to just 22 last season.

Clubs protest: Madrid and Villarreal lead the charge Despite VAR’s heightened involvement, frustration centers on when the system doesn’t intervene. After the most recent round, Real Madrid and Villarreal voiced outrage over controversial decisions.

Madrid demanded a penalty review for a challenge on Jude Bellingham, but VAR declined to call referee Martínez Munuera to the monitor. The club’s in-house media, Real Madrid TV, accused the league of trying to “push Madrid out of LaLiga.”
“This is third-world officiating,” Madrid TV fumed, citing FIFA’s exclusion of Spanish referees from the upcoming Club World Cup as further proof of distrust. They also criticized the disallowed goal by Vinicius Jr., flagged for a marginal offside by Endrick.


Madrid are like the Dippers, they get more decisions than anyone but always create an agenda where they are badly treated.

I call bullshit!
 
I watched the Rags game earlier that afternoon & we were constantly told VAR were looking at things. They were desperate to get involved for the Rags.

It’s fucking clear & organised but I still want VAR, it was bent before but this proves it.
If it was bent before and still bent now, then why would you want VAR? If we're stuck with it being bent either way, then lets not have our joy of watching the match and seeing continuous flow robbed as well!
 
Madrid are like the Dippers, they get more decisions than anyone but always create an agenda where they are badly treated.

I call bullshit!
Agenda? The stats are clear. They've had more VAR interventions go against them than any club in La Liga, whilst VARcelona had more VAR interventions go for them. VAR has singlehandedly put VARcelona in the position they are, ahead of Madrid. It should be Madrid closing in on the Title. But VAR has prevented them. That's bent!

See the table : With VAR and without :


Madrid would have it nearly clinched by now, without VAR. Instead they're looking up at VARcelona. BENT!

They should give the trophy to VAR.
 
If it was bent before and still bent now, then why would you want VAR? If we're stuck with it being bent either way, then lets not have our joy of watching the match and seeing continuous flow robbed as well!

Because we used to get ghost penalties given against us for not even touching the arms. It has improved it, there’s no way the Rags would be where they are under the old way, not a chance.
 
Agenda? The stats are clear. They've had more VAR interventions go against them than any club in La Liga, whilst VARcelona had more VAR interventions go for them. VAR has singlehandedly put VARcelona in the position they are, ahead of Madrid. It should be Madrid closing in on the Title. But VAR has prevented them. That's bent!

See the table : With VAR and without :


Madrid would have it nearly clinched by now, without VAR. Instead they're looking up at VARcelona. BENT!

They should give the trophy to VAR.

Stats can do anything.

Intervening or not intervening can both be bent.

For example VAR did not intervene to award City a penalty versus Madrid in the last minute.

Don’t tell me Madrid are badly treated, it’s nonsense!
 
Because we used to get ghost penalties given against us for not even touching the arms. It has improved it, there’s no way the Rags would be where they are under the old way, not a chance.
Everyone has a violin to play about how they have been wronged. And yes of course City has been hard done many times. But that doesn't justify this monstrosity! It's a frustrating situation in that City has won so many PL titles since VAR has been introduced, so there would be every reason to think VAR is one of the reasons why. If not for the fact that City won also in the years preceding VAR's introduction. VAR has done far more harm than good, for football. And it's not even close. But put it over all you want. It continues to prove that it is inherently bent, and in my view far more bent than before.
 
Stats can do anything.

Intervening or not intervening can both be bent.

For example VAR did not intervene to award City a penalty versus Madrid in the last minute.

Don’t tell me Madrid are badly treated, it’s nonsense!
You saw the table comparison. Of course that fails to consider the accuracy of each decision, but the fact is that VAR itself has indeed put VARcelona on top. There's no disputing that.

Yes intervening or not intervening can both be bent, and every decision, intervention or non-intervention is open to interpretation. The problem with VAR is exactly what you describe with the example in the City Madrid match. There's always something to nitpick with VAR. VAR creates additional controversy since there's more to be outraged about. If VAR intervenes, it's controversial, if VAR doesn't intervene, it's controversial. If VAR intervenes and makes the wrong decision, it's controversial. If the decision takes too long, it's controversial.

VAR is a lightning rod of controversy. That much is clear. We didn't have anywhere near this kind of controversy before. Now granted, being hard done is nothing new. But the standard of officiating in general was better before because they didn't have any backup, so they were more focused on the here and now rather than second guessing themself constantly. Linos weren't told to keep their flags down. If that isn't bent I don't know what is.
 
You saw the table comparison. Of course that fails to consider the accuracy of each decision, but the fact is that VAR itself has indeed put VARcelona on top. There's no disputing that.

Yes intervening or not intervening can both be bent, and every decision, intervention or non-intervention is open to interpretation. The problem with VAR is exactly what you describe with the example in the City Madrid match. There's always something to nitpick with VAR. VAR creates additional controversy since there's more to be outraged about. If VAR intervenes, it's controversial, if VAR doesn't intervene, it's controversial. If VAR intervenes and makes the wrong decision, it's controversial. If the decision takes too long, it's controversial.

VAR is a lightning rod of controversy. That much is clear. We didn't have anywhere near this kind of controversy before. Now granted, being hard done is nothing new. But the standard of officiating in general was better before because they didn't have any backup, so they were more focused on the here and now rather than second guessing themself constantly. Linos weren't told to keep their flags down. If that isn't bent I don't know what is.

If you don’t consider the accuracy of each decision then its an utterly pointless table.

The officiating previously was fucking awful & it continues. I remember in the piss can years they wouldn’t / couldn’t be booked before the 60th minute. After they won the title they got a soft red & the piss can would smirk. Teams were petrified of challenging in the box otherwise a penalty would be given for an outrageous dive.

VAR doesn’t make decisions, people make them. It’s not VAR that should be questioned it’s the people & if you think those people become more honest with no checks & balances then I think it’s naive.
 
If you don’t consider the accuracy of each decision then its an utterly pointless table.
The problem with considering the accuracy of each decision is that each decision is often subjective, open to interpretation and thus difficult for any of us to come to a consensus about.

This is a problem caused by how VAR was designed and how they have been operating in contrast to how we were told it was supposed to operate. Most of VAR decisions seem to be 50/50 situations, either entirely subjective or marginal offsides, or something that could be reasonably argued either way. This is the complete opposite of seeing something that was truly missed and correcting a howler. So lets no pretend anymore that they're just there as a failsafe to prevent a howley. They've repeatedly shown themselves intervening in marginal or subjective decisions that consist of the vast majority of VAR interventions and reviews.

So considering the accuracy of each decision would be a pain staking process of going through each situation and seeing if we could come to a consensus as to what the correct decision was. And that doesn't include all the times that a wrong decision was made on the pitch that either couldn't be corrected by VAR or that they for whatever reason didn't choose to intervene.

But what we can say is that VAR has intervened and ruled in favor of VARcelona more than any club in La Liga, while ruling against Real Madrid more than any club. So we can say with certainty that VAR has without a doubt put VARcelona in position to win the title instead of Real. Now we can certainly take a closer look at each decision and decide for ourself how many of those were correct and how many weren't, and I bet everyone would have their own view on which ones were correct, so that exercise would largely be subjective and open to interpretation like most VAR interventions and decisions seem to be, highlighting the fact that they're not in practice there to prevent howler's, they are there to influence matches and determine results in key situations, that in the past would be left to the on field referee. Decisions that in most cases are 50/50 or subjective decisions that could reasonably go either way.

A lot of VAR's failures are human nature, i.e. wanting to do good by the fans but attempting something that is impractical and delusional thinking that it will accomplish anything meaningful. And now that the VARs are there making the kind of money they are making, they have every incentive to fight for VAR to continue, to keep themselves paid and relevant and "needed" so they can continue with this pantomime.

They have been incentivized to justify their existence by intervening often, even when it is not necessary or useful just so that they can pretend to be useful. The whole VAR charade is a ruse, to pretend to bringing fairness to football, but in reality it's just a mechanism for those involved to make money and to retain the power to influence matches often in suspicious or inconsistent ways.
 
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The problem with considering the accuracy of each decision is that each decision is often subjective, open to interpretation and thus difficult for any of us to come to a consensus about.

This is a problem caused by how VAR was designed and how they have been operating in contrast to how we were told it was supposed to operate. Most of VAR decisions seem to be 50/50 situations, either entirely subjective or marginal offsides, or something that could be reasonably argued either way. This is the complete opposite of seeing something that was truly missed and correcting a howler. So lets no pretend anymore that they're just there as a failsafe to prevent a howley. They've repeatedly shown themselves intervening in marginal or subjective decisions that consist of the vast majority of VAR interventions and reviews.

So considering the accuracy of each decision would be a pain staking process of going through each situation and seeing if we could come to a consensus as to what the correct decision was. And that doesn't include all the times that a wrong decision was made on the pitch that either couldn't be corrected by VAR or that they for whatever reason didn't choose to intervene.

But what we can say is that VAR has intervened and ruled in favor of VARcelona more than any club in La Liga, while ruling against Real Madrid more than any club. So we can say with certainty that VAR has without a doubt put VARcelona in position to win the title instead of Real. Now we can certainly take a closer look at each decision and decide for ourself how many of those were correct and how many weren't, and I bet everyone would have their own view on which ones were correct, so that exercise would largely be subjective and open to interpretation like most VAR interventions and decisions seem to be, highlighting the fact that they're not in practice there to prevent howler's, they are there to influence matches and determine results in key situations, that in the past would be left to the on field referee. Decisions that in most cases are 50/50 or subjective decisions that could reasonably go either way.

A lot of VAR's failures are human nature, i.e. wanting to do good by the fans but attempting something that is impractical and delusional thinking that it will accomplish anything meaningful. And now that the VARs are there making the kind of money they are making, they have every incentive to fight for VAR to continue, to keep themselves paid and relevant and "needed" so they can continue with this pantomime.

They have been incentivized to justify their existence by intervening often, even when it is not necessary or useful just so that they can pretend to be useful. The whole VAR charade is a ruse, to pretend to bringing fairness to football, but in reality it's just a mechanism for those involved to make money and to retain the power to influence matches often in suspicious or inconsistent ways.

So if a Barca fan said refs aren’t giving the correct decisions until VAR check it cos they are bias towards Madrid & they produced a table with no context pro loving it then the argument swings 180.

We see this madness every year from Dippers. It’s funny from 2 countries the 2 fan bases with the noisiest cry arses that seem to be the most looked after produce these.

You have to consider the accuracy of each decision if you are going to complain, if you’re not wtf are you complaining about?
 
The officiating previously was fucking awful & it continues. I remember in the piss can years they wouldn’t / couldn’t be booked before the 60th minute. After they won the title they got a soft red & the piss can would smirk. Teams were petrified of challenging in the box otherwise a penalty would be given for an outrageous dive.
As jaded as you are, particularly as it pertains to football as it were before VAR, I would characterize what you describe as a kind of "dive paranoia" that continues to persist. There are two sides to this coin, there's the outrage of diving being rewarded and penalties given for diving, which in reality is a very rare situation that has never been commonplace in football. Yet it's talked about as if it was as a means to argue that VAR was needed to curb it. And this obsession over diving has led to so many 50/50 penalties being reviewed often resulting in long painstaking delays in which a highly subjective and decision is then reached for no apparent reason.

There was a built in natural mechanism for being on the lookout for diving prior to VAR. It meant that, defenders in the box have to be careful not to do anything in the box that could cause the ref to think there was a foul. And guess what, the same dynamic exists today, defenders are worried about doing any little thing that could be considered a foul, only now due to the possibility of VAR catching them doing something that may be they would have gotten away with before. The latter which is of course the complete opposite of diving.

So you have both ends of the spectrum, being on the lookout for dives, and being on the lookout for fouls. And guess what, VAR often can't distinguish between the two since both could be occurring at once and then it becomes an entirely subjective decision that could be reasonably given either way. Which only reinforces the need to have referees make decisions on the pitch, out of instinct, out of what they see. And any errors can be debated at the pub after the match.

But to do it this way, to stop the match and summon the referee over to the monitor only for him to be spoon fed guidance on how to interpret what just happened is utterly absurd on many levels. But that's where we're at. If you disagree with this, provide some examples of when a CLEAR no-contact 100% acting 100% never touched, brining down of oneself dive in the box was given as a penalty on the pitch in the VAR era only to be reversed.

Nowadays instead of being paranoid about players diving and getting away with it with a referee giving a penalty with no failsafe, we have now pro-VARers pretending that players dove when they actually didn't as a means to claim that VAR was needed to correct an injustice when that's not even remotely the case like with the Mbappe in the Arsenal Madrid match.

I've seen enough over the last many years to know that VAR is a failed experiment and is in practice merely a mechanism used by a group of people who aren't held accountable to allow themselves and others to influence matches in whatever way the see fit and to never be confronted or punished for their match interference.
 

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