VAR Discussion Thread

flook said:
Seems the Scottish title may be decided by a dodgy VAR decision too.

www.bbc.co.uk

Hearts head coach Derek McInnes rages at 'disgusting' Celtic penalty

Hearts head coach Derek McInnes says his side are "up against everybody" after a "disgusting" 99th-minute penalty winner for Celtic ensured the Scottish Premiership title race goes to a final-day decider on Saturday.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Everyone has known for years that league is bent.
I think now people a waking up to the fact the premier league is just as rotten.
The cup final will again be decided by a dodgy bent decision against us again.
Hardly worth watching
 
The fatal flaw in VAR is that the technical stuff at Stockley Park is being done by overworked referees , all under immense pressure and all backing each other up when there's any controversy . Consequently PGMOL double down , lack imaginative thinking about solutions to this mess and give corporate platitudes to placate the clubs and fans .

I think being a VAR requires a different skill set to the referee on the pitch . Less man management and subjective and more logical and dispassionate. You cannot expect a referee to decompress from an on pitch role and be competent enough to be a VAR within a few short days. These poor referee decisions , have the feel for me of people making poor decisions when mentally exhausted and being terrified of any fall out when they make a mistake .

There should be a dedicated team of technicians or referees , who have specific attributes and are trained for this task alone Ideally they can spot infringements but do not know any referees personally and crucially are not wanting to keep in with the boss . Their job is to simply give the in field referee information .

If it's a clear and obvious that the on field referee has truly missed then a clear word in his ear , say the number 10 , tells him his dropped a clanger . If it's not clear and obvious then it's a 5 . On both occasions he knows the decision rests with him at the monitor but he still has to make his own mind up and spot the infringement without being guided by Stockley Park . He doesn't need someone talking to him when watching the screen as he needs to focus on what he sees . If he can't see an infringement without being told what it is he shouldn't be a referee .

In the case of the West Ham goal, with multiple infringements, which will take far too long to unpick , the code number is zero and the on field decision stands . This would quickly stop the rugby scrum tactics .

Arsenal have spotted that compression , both physically in the six yard box and temporally in the time pressure in the VAR room , can work in their favour and have gambled they'll get more favourable decisions simply because the multiple impingements cannot be unpicked and the grappling is waved away .
 
By the time this season winds down, the Prem title will almost certainly have been gift-wrapped and handed over to Lego's cheats. But the whole world will have witnessed cheating on a scale not seen since that Govan **** was lording it over the plastics in Trafford. They will have seen what we have all seen: diving, feigning injury, time-wasting, and downright disgraceful tactics from a so-called elite Prem side. Every man and his wife will now have Arsenal's number. The vitriol will be like never before seen and heard in this country.
We have played better football: we have not resorted to cheating or diving. We've been fortunate a few times; the recent Bernie incident springs to mind, when he hit out at the Sunderland player's leg. But we've also been on the wrong end of some decisions as well. Swings and roundabouts. However, most neutrals will have preferred us to lift the trophy again instead of Lego's anti-football thugs. That much is fact.
If we finish the season a close second, we'll have done it by playing fair and giving the crowd some unforgettable footballing treats along the way (just last night's Foden backheel for one).

Compare our season to that lot from 'Norf Landon': we can be proud of our achievements, they can't.
 
VAR didn't even show the ref the full sequence of events of the Trossard incident, they showed a second or two as it was coming to a conclusion. My issue is why didn't VAR point out that there does appear to be a foul on the keeper, however we need you to look at this foul that proceeds it first. Trossard isn't looking at the ball, and is grappling/impeding Pedro, who then appears to get pushed into the keeper. no, they just focus on the foul on the keeper, that is further along in the chain of events. Even the assistant VAR appeared to be trying to point this out, to no avail. Just proves they are all two cheeks of the same arse, and I'm more convinced than ever that it isn't "incompetence". It is all bent plain and simple, "incompetence" doesn't happen every week, to the benefit of the same teams. if it were truly "incompetence", law of averages, they'd have been on the receiving end at some point. Funnily enough they never have.
 
KentBlue said:
By the time this season winds down, the Prem title will almost certainly have been gift-wrapped and handed over to Lego's cheats. But the whole world will have witnessed cheating on a scale not seen since that Govan **** was lording it over the plastics in Trafford. They will have seen what we have all seen: diving, feigning injury, time-wasting, and downright disgraceful tactics from a so-called elite Prem side. Every man and his wife will now have Arsenal's number. The vitriol will be like never before seen and heard in this country.
We have played better football: we have not resorted to cheating or diving. We've been fortunate a few times; the recent Bernie incident springs to mind, when he hit out at the Sunderland player's leg. But we've also been on the wrong end of some decisions as well. Swings and roundabouts. However, most neutrals will have preferred us to lift the trophy again instead of Lego's anti-football thugs. That much is fact.
If we finish the season a close second, we'll have done it by playing fair and giving the crowd some unforgettable footballing treats along the way (just last night's Foden backheel for one).

Compare our season to that lot from 'Norf Landon': we can be proud of our achievements, they can't.
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I believe they'll also have the fewest goals scored from open play, of any title winning side in premier league history. Funny that isn't it?
 
bluemanchester said:
"I aint throwing mud at you....just stating that you are unable to look at the incident impartially which you clearly agree with...fair play for admitting it."

Just got home from the match so will just address the point above. I did look at the incident impartially and saw Trossard grappling with Pedro who was trying to get away from the fouling by Trossard. That was the first foul of the incident. A penalty should have been awarded and the game stopped. For the VAR to ignore this is staggering, even when the assistant VAR was pointing it out. Tha VAR has not shown the ref all the angles I presume because if he had the ref would have correctly awarded a penalty, I would have thought. The later "foul" on the goalkeeper is irrelevant if the correct following of the laws of the game was taken. You are taking a lonely hill to die on and I would expect my hill to be like the Kinder Scout protest last century, teeming with people. Anyway it is gone now but as sure as eggs are eggs Le Arse will not be having the same leniancy they have been given this season.
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Outfield players have been doing that all season in most teams and nothing gets given so the decision to not give a foul against Trossard (rightly or wrongly) is at least consistent...its possible to argue that its a foul and I wouldnt disagree with you BUT if you are looking at what has happened consistently this season they havent been given as fouls.

We are looking at it from different angles....Im after consistency - you are after a single decision...

Consistency is that what Trossard (and Rice) wree doing hasnt really been given as fouls all season - should it be???? Yes I would agree they are fouls BUT looking for consistency in refereeing decisions they havent been given all season ......so I have no problem with it

What was done to the keeper however is a foul......now my issue is that shows INCONSISTENCY as Arsenal have been impeeding keepers all season and got goals from it.....thats one rule for one and another rule for others....therefore if we are consistent the goal should have been given for what it was actually disallowed for

NO lonely hill...as I said I know a lot of blues not on here that agree it was a foul....and others have commented on it on social media,

The other issue is that people are saying we havent won the league because of it - bollocks (excuses as always with fans) - IF we dont win the league its cause we havent been good enough over 38 games of the season...not that one result.

The silver lining as you say however is that it looks like with all the clamour about it they will review what is happening....there is a general consensus across football that this grappling at corners is shit and needs to be stopped....As soon as penalites are given for defenders rugby tacking attackers in the box at set pieces then it will stop it.
 
simon23 said:
The other issue is that people are saying we havent won the league because of it - bollocks (excuses as always with fans) - IF we dont win the league its cause we havent been good enough over 38 games of the season...not that one result.
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That's utter bullshit.
If the referee and VAR had treated that one incident in the same way as they've treated the exact same incident all season, City are top of the league tonight with 2 games to play. And that's just from that single decision.
How can you say if we don't win the league we haven't been good enough? By that metric neither have Arsenal as they should have exactly the same points as us.
If we haven't been good enough when Arsenal have been literally handed points by the VAR and referees how much better do City have to be to deserve to win the league? 6 points better? 8 points better? 12 points better?
You yourself have admitted the goal should have stood so I dont understand how you can say City haven't been good enough when Arsenal have an artificially inflated points total yet are only the incorrectly awarded 2 points ahead, it makes no sense.
If anything all it says is that Arsenal haven't been good enough to win the league without a helping hand from the officials.
 
It is getting more and more farcical.
According to the Key Incidents panel, VAR made a mistake in not awarding a penalty to Everton for Bernie’s holding offence at a corner.
Then WTF was happening with Rugby tackles on the Hammers players after the corner kick v Tarquins?
 
Protein Junkie said:
It is getting more and more farcical.
According to the Key Incidents panel, VAR made a mistake in not awarding a penalty to Everton for Bernie’s holding offence at a corner.
Then WTF was happening with Rugby tackles on the Hammers players after the corner kick v Tarquins?
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They already explained why Arses grappling are no fouls and that Raya was been nearly killed first of all.

But concerning your question - why isn't that asked by BBC? Are they complicit now?
 
Protein Junkie said:
It is getting more and more farcical.
According to the Key Incidents panel, VAR made a mistake in not awarding a penalty to Everton for Bernie’s holding offence at a corner.
Then WTF was happening with Rugby tackles on the Hammers players after the corner kick v Tarquins?
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Presume the potential ankle smasher on Doku was ok though.
As are the numerous fouls on Haaland in the box every game. Anyone would think PIGMOB are in cahoots with the media to sling mud City’s way whilst hiding anything that counts against us.
 
I see the orthodox narrative emerging is that the almost universal view among pundits is that VAR was absolutely right to recommend that the hammers equaliser be disallowed. I agree that pundits such as Merson and Keown have come out in support of VAR and that Murphy on MotD came up with some garbled rubbish that VAR should not allow a goal NOW just because Arsenal are unpopular. A strange argument indeed! But against these wise men are ranged a growing number of ex professionals who find the VAR/ ref's final decision nothing short of scandalous. Our own Joe Hare and Shay Given but also Peter Schmeichel and others, many of whom are goalkeepers.

In Scotland the decision to award Celtic a penalty in the dying embers of stoppage time seemed even mor plainly just wrong and the pundits seemed to take this view. Then the statistics showing that VAR decisions at key moments seemed to favour Celtic emerged. Genuine mistakes? Correct decisions? Or something more sinister? Surely there's no chance of bias with such a faultless system ... But why on earth are the Swedes abandoning VAR completely?
 
danielwood5 said:
That's utter bullshit.
If the referee and VAR had treated that one incident in the same way as they've treated the exact same incident all season, City are top of the league tonight with 2 games to play. And that's just from that single decision.
How can you say if we don't win the league we haven't been good enough? By that metric neither have Arsenal as they should have exactly the same points as us.
If we haven't been good enough when Arsenal have been literally handed points by the VAR and referees how much better do City have to be to deserve to win the league? 6 points better? 8 points better? 12 points better?
You yourself have admitted the goal should have stood so I dont understand how you can say City haven't been good enough when Arsenal have an artificially inflated points total yet are only the incorrectly awarded 2 points ahead, it makes no sense.
If anything all it says is that Arsenal haven't been good enough to win the league without a helping hand from the officials.
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a 38 game season does not lie...maybe in a one off cup game it does....but not over the course of the season....

Every team will point to VAR and refs as reasons they have dropped points...every single one of them regardless of where they are in the league...listen to Arsenal fans still going on about decisions we have had in our favour...remember the Doku challenge on Mcallister (last season?) - the foot into the chest one that was deemed not a penalty for instance.....and there are lots of others....

What about our shit performances or dropping points against the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Everton - these are the thigns we have to take responsibility for and that we can control

The goal should have stood based on what Arsenal have done all season....however the actual decision was the correct one....consistency - however as long as we have human beings refereeing games we will have inconsistencies as we all see different things even watching the same event.


Anyone hoping for a season where refs wont make wrong decisions might as well stand outside now and just scream at the moon from here to eternity....its an absolute waste of time....
 
simon23 said:
a 38 game season does not lie...maybe in a one off cup game it does....but not over the course of the season....

Every team will point to VAR and refs as reasons they have dropped points...every single one of them regardless of where they are in the league...listen to Arsenal fans still going on about decisions we have had in our favour...remember the Doku challenge on Mcallister (last season?) - the foot into the chest one that was deemed not a penalty for instance.....and there are lots of others....

What about our shit performances or dropping points against the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Everton - these are the thigns we have to take responsibility for and that we can control

The goal should have stood based on what Arsenal have done all season....however the actual decision was the correct one....consistency - however as long as we have human beings refereeing games we will have inconsistencies as we all see different things even watching the same event.


Anyone hoping for a season where refs wont make wrong decisions might as well stand outside now and just scream at the moon from here to eternity....its an absolute waste of time....
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What decisions will Arsenal point to the ref and VAR as the reason they dropped 3 points?
Also, it wasn't the correct decision to rule out the goal, based on neither the precedence set this season or the Laws of the Game, the correct decision was either penalty to West Ham or allow the goal to stand after allowing play to continue for advantage.
So, I'll ask again, if City dont deserve to win the league how do you make out that Arsenal do when they're only at the top of the table due to incorrectly awarded points?
 
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Its a foul
danielwood5 said:
What decisions will Arsenal point to the ref and VAR as the reason they dropped 3 points?
Also, it wasn't the correct decision to rule out the goal, based on neither the precedence set this season or the Laws of the Game, the correct decision was either penalty to West Ham or allow the goal to stand after allowing play to continue for advantage.
So, I'll ask again, if City dont deserve to win the league how do you make out that Arsenal do when they're only at the top of the table due to incorrectly awarded points
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its a foul on the keeper therefore it was rightlyfully disallowed. Your frustration should be aired at the goals arsenal have scored similar to this in other games this season and allowed - hence why there is a huge clamour for a review of what happens at corners etc - this is my complaint but in the end its also irrelevant

Arsenal are top due to winning more points than us...others can say they are the least deserving potential champions and I woudlnt like to formualate an argument against that but Arsenal fans wont give a shit

Here are some examples you asked for - this shows that other teams have complaints andcould argue that they should have more points/we should have less which ever way you want to say it:

Wrong VAR decision that would see us have one less point
www.express.co.uk

Arsenal told VAR decision wrong as Premier League confirm big title race mistake

The Premier League's Key Match Incidents panel has confirmed VAR officials made a critical error by not awarding Everton a penalty against Manchester City.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk

They also had a penalty overturned vs Newcastle by VAR

Limited to no VAR reviews of penalty incidents for Arsenal in a game vs Everton.

Van Dykes ruled out goal against us. Robertson offside - intefeering with play incident - Arsenal fans would argue that affected the eventual result

US getting a penalty by VAR vs Brighton....other fans said it was soft at very least

This is the point however - Im not saying any of those decisions are right or wrong.....EVERY fan of everyclub complains like you are - complaints of bias by officials etc - are we the only ones that are right and everyone else wrong?

You can come back and pick holes in all of those and other fans will pick counter holes.....as I said the complaints abut refs/VAR are a waste of time - humans make mistakes or are curruptable which ever way you want to look at it.

Arsenal fans still go on about a handball by Rodri that helped us win a title...Im not sure what incident they are talking about. Scouse fans point to the Douk challneeg on Mcallister - (for what its worth to me that was one we completely got away with! - happy as it was against the scousers however just to hear them spit their dummy out!)

We have to be good enough to win despite ref errors - Pep himself has said that - fans need to remember it and focus on supporting the team instead of bitching about VAR all the time...

To finsih for me I would remove VAR completely....all accept automated offside and goal line tech. We still wont get consistency or perfect decisions BUT because it slows the game down and gives the media too much access to debate hairline decisions - its turning the game into a circus which the media thrive off - the game itself is becoming a side show and a joke cause of it....We wouldnt have had the Aguero moment quite the same as there would have been a VAR review...nothing to disallow of course but simply cause all goals are reviewed and there would have been a small delay in celebrating which takes out the organic celebrations which we saw - this is the true nature of the game
 
simon23 said:
Its a foul

its a foul on the keeper therefore it was rightlyfully disallowed. Your frustration should be aired at the goals arsenal have scored similar to this in other games this season and allowed - hence why there is a huge clamour for a review of what happens at corners etc - this is my complaint but in the end its also irrelevant

Arsenal are top due to winning more points than us...others can say they are the least deserving potential champions and I woudlnt like to formualate an argument against that but Arsenal fans wont give a shit

Here are some examples you asked for - this shows that other teams have complaints andcould argue that they should have more points/we should have less which ever way you want to say it:

Wrong VAR decision that would see us have one less point
www.express.co.uk

Arsenal told VAR decision wrong as Premier League confirm big title race mistake

The Premier League's Key Match Incidents panel has confirmed VAR officials made a critical error by not awarding Everton a penalty against Manchester City.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk

They also had a penalty overturned vs Newcastle by VAR

Limited to no VAR reviews of penalty incidents for Arsenal in a game vs Everton.

Van Dykes ruled out goal against us. Robertson offside - intefeering with play incident - Arsenal fans would argue that affected the eventual result

US getting a penalty by VAR vs Brighton....other fans said it was soft at very least

This is the point however - Im not saying any of those decisions are right or wrong.....EVERY fan of everyclub complains like you are - complaints of bias by officials etc - are we the only ones that are right and everyone else wrong?

You can come back and pick holes in all of those and other fans will pick counter holes.....as I said the complaints abut refs/VAR are a waste of time - humans make mistakes or are curruptable which ever way you want to look at it.

Arsenal fans still go on about a handball by Rodri that helped us win a title...Im not sure what incident they are talking about. Scouse fans point to the Douk challneeg on Mcallister - (for what its worth to me that was one we completely got away with! - happy as it was against the scousers however just to hear them spit their dummy out!)

We have to be good enough to win despite ref errors - Pep himself has said that - fans need to remember it and focus on supporting the team instead of bitching about VAR all the time...

To finsih for me I would remove VAR completely....all accept automated offside and goal line tech. We still wont get consistency or perfect decisions BUT because it slows the game down and gives the media too much access to debate hairline decisions - its turning the game into a circus which the media thrive off - the game itself is becoming a side show and a joke cause of it....We wouldnt have had the Aguero moment quite the same as there would have been a VAR review...nothing to disallow of course but simply cause all goals are reviewed and there would have been a small delay in celebrating which takes out the organic celebrations which we saw - this is the true nature of the game
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And, if Trossard hadn’t been fouling the West Ham player before he got anywhere near Raya, you’d have a point. But he was, so you haven’t.
 
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