VAR (PL introduction 2019)

andyhinch said:
If it’s to close to call, I my mind the decision should go in favour of the attacking side.
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Once upon a time it was the defence that had the benefit of the call! Then we had no score draws galore, and the pools changed the points system for draws, and then we had FIFA fickin' about with the offside law to arbitrate the notion of players not interfering (which was always one of the reasons for not calling a player offside.) And we have seen what can of worms that opens. The awarding of penalties, the calling of offsides could equally be settled with the toss of a coin for all the good VAR might deliver! I am wholly in favour of a system that delivers more accurately decisions that reflect what happened on the pitch but, unlike any sport that has used technology to improve decisions, football has and will continue to cock it up!
 
aguero93:20 said:
They're not supposed to flag unless they're 100% sure it's offside, which they can't be in the tightest calls. So I'd quite happily say that he's in the wrong. The rule has moved from giving the attacker the benefit to giving the defender the benefit somehow even though that's against what every governing body in the sport says it should be.
In the interests of letting the game flow it needs to go back to only flagging when they'd bet their careers on it being offside and then querying with VAR if the attack ends with a goal, penalty or red card.
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It's not something that a linesman can sit down, have a think about, and then come to the conclusion it was tight so let it go. Something like that is almost entirely instinctive in a nano-second - that's offside, or that's onside. This happens so quickly, it can look a yard offside or a yard onside in no time. It's not reasonable to anticipate that something close is going to be the result of detailed introspection and analysis.

I do think people are very often expecting the linesmen to be of a species far more advanced than human beings are.
 
Henkeman said:
This is a potential can of worms though. With offsides the thing that surprises me more than anything is how often they are right, not how often they are wrong. It's such a hard thing to do to look at the ball, look at the line, all at the same time. I can't say the linesman was wrong to flag when it's so tight, it's not fair on them.

Now we could move to a system where the linesman only puts his flag up when its clear and obvious - that's always possible. And you'll have 20 VAR decisions a game. But the fundamental point is that most offsides ARE quite close, because a player is trying to time their run properly.
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The whole point of VAR was that it would be used when there’s an obvious mistake.
Therefore the offside should have stayed with the linesman, as it wasn’t obvious.
 
aguero93:20 said:
They're not supposed to flag unless they're 100% sure it's offside, which they can't be in the tightest calls. So I'd quite happily say that he's in the wrong. The rule has moved from giving the attacker the benefit to giving the defender the benefit somehow even though that's against what every governing body in the sport says it should be.
In the interests of letting the game flow it needs to go back to only flagging when they'd bet their careers on it being offside and then querying with VAR if the attack ends with a goal, penalty or red card.
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I think the offside line, should be half a yard in favour of the attacker & all grounds have enough cameras to be side on.

Then no goals are ever disallowed incorrectly & all teams benefit at one end.

The offside rule should be the one where there are hardly any arguments.

It's all the other shit which is where the controversy should be.
 
Henkeman said:
It's not something that a linesman can sit down, have a think about, and then come to the conclusion it was tight so let it go. Something like that is almost entirely instinctive in a nano-second - that's offside, or that's onside. This happens so quickly, it can look a yard offside or a yard onside in no time. It's not reasonable to anticipate that something close is going to be the result of detailed introspection and analysis.

I do think people are very often expecting the linesmen to be of a species far more advanced than human beings are.
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The whole point of having this system is that they can let it go if it's not clear cut instead of guessing and let the VAR decide. Right now you may as well flip a coin. They get the clear ones correct 90% of the time and the less clear ones 50% of the time.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I think the offside line, should be half a yard in favour of the attacker & all grounds have enough cameras to be side on.

Then no goals are ever disallowed incorrectly & all teams benefit at one end.

The offside rule should be the one where there are hardly any arguments.

It's all the other shit which is where the controversy should be.
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Yeah I'd happily go back to clear daylight, it was always ridiculous that the loose part of the shoulder of someone's shirt could be offside while the rest of them was on.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
The two still shots we have seen are, in my opinion, taken at slightly different times - a fraction of a fraction of a second difference, and we can see how further forward Kane seems to have got in that time. I think he was ever so slightly offside in the official shot (about 1.12cm?) because of the way his body was angled, but that was too close to call. A linesman has one chance to make his decision and won't see exactly when the ball leaves the foot (possibly using sound instead of vision) so giving Kane further time to move forward. I think the linesman got it right. People are too harsh . You'd need Marty Feldman eyes to see everything happen at the same time.

The players need to fecking listen to what they're told (play to the whistle) and stop whinging.
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If he appeared a cm offside from that angle, he will be a foot & a half off from the side.
 
squirtyflower said:
The whole point of VAR was that it would be used when there’s an obvious mistake.
Therefore the offside should have stayed with the linesman, as it wasn’t obvious.
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This is a good point. I can't remember which version of VAR was being used last night, but like in cricket, I do like the idea that the on-field officials are supported.
 
Neville Kneville said:
If he appeared a cm offside from that angle, he will be a foot & a half off from the side.
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This is like the couple who complained to the BBC that the courts at Wimbledon were not rectangular and that the player at the top of the screen had a shorter service line than the player at the bottom. They proved it by using a tape measure on their TV picture!
 
squirtyflower said:
Cricket also shows the decision making on the screen, can you ever see the PL doing that?
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They'll have to eventually as the IFAB or UEFA will force their hand, the dippers and rags are the ones holding that up as their shitheap grounds are 30 years behind the rest of the league.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
This is like the couple who complained to the BBC that the courts at Wimbledon were not rectangular and that the player at the top of the screen had a shorter service line than the player at the bottom. They proved it by using a tape measure on their TV picture!
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No it's like someone who understands camera angles.
 
squirtyflower said:
The whole point of VAR was that it would be used when there’s an obvious mistake.
Therefore the offside should have stayed with the linesman, as it wasn’t obvious.
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Exactly that. And when it's tight, there's absolutely no way we can be sure it is a mistake - it's just not possible, there's far too much going on, and far too quickly.
 
aguero93:20 said:
They'll have to eventually as the IFAB or UEFA will force their hand, the dippers and rags are the ones holding that up as their shitheap grounds are 30 years behind the rest of the league.
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I seem to recall us having screens at Maine Road.

Maybe uninted should be told no more big games can be played at their dump until they put screens up, have proper disabled fan access, put some away fans next to the pitch, and widen the fucking seats.
 
aguero93:20 said:
The whole point of having this system is that they can let it go if it's not clear cut instead of guessing and let the VAR decide. Right now you may as well flip a coin. They get the clear ones correct 90% of the time and the less clear ones 50% of the time.
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But it just can't possibly be clear cut for all the reasons I've said. When precisely did the ball leve contact with the foot for example? Everyone is moving, you can decide it's one frame before or one after, and in that time the whole line has moved by a couple of feet as defenders move up and forwards move towards the goal.
 
squirtyflower said:
I seem to recall us having screens at Maine Road.

Maybe uninted should be told no more big games can be played at their dump until they put screens up, have proper disabled fan access, put some away fans next to the pitch, and widen the fucking seats.
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That's what'll happen eventually though, they're pissing in the wind with this. Either the IFAB will add VAR replays on a big screen to the overarching FIFA rules or UEFA will make having a big screen for VAR a requirement for entry into the EL and CL.
 
Henkeman said:
But it just can't possibly be clear cut for all the reasons I've said. When precisely did the ball leve contact with the foot for example? Everyone is moving, you can decide it's one frame before or one after, and in that time the whole line has moved by a couple of feet as defenders move up and forwards move towards the goal.
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Yes, so you give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker as has always been intended to be the case and was before the linesmen decided it was better to call offside and be wrong than to call onside and be wrong.
 
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