Vat on Independent school fees?

[stonerblue]

SEND children at private schools are 100% funded by the LA if the child has an EHCP. And nearly 100% of SEND pupils at private schools have an EHCP. Won’t cost the parents of SEND pupils one additional pence.

Come on now mate....

 

[stonerblue]

How dare you. You know nothing about my mate and the scarifices he’s had to make. You insulting, ignorant twat.

SOME people scrimp and save to get their kids a better education and worry sick about how they can continue to afford it and that they may have to pull them out of their school half way through. You have no fucking clue.

Not everyone is minted.

Some people have to scrimp and save to feed their kids or buy them a pair of school shoes.

 

[stonerblue]

Really. You utter nob.

'knob'

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yep, the hypocrisy is stunning.

he's had a mare, the constant anti labour and outrage over everything just isn't rubbing off.
No wonder he has taken a break.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It’s not like school fees haven’t increased way ahead of inflation in recent years. The average cost of private school fees has risen by 20% in real terms since 2010, and by 55% since 2003, even without VAT.

So presumably there will have been plenty of parents who have had to remove their kids from private education over the last decade or two because of the relatively increasing cost.

Where was the outrage at that?

I’ve perhaps got a bit more insight into this particular subject than most, as my son went to private school but had to be moved to a state (boarding) school when my business failed and I went bankrupt fifteen years ago. Serendipitously, he actually benefited enormously from that move and he went from being an average student to an excellent one as a consequence.

The reality was that me and his mum could no longer afford the fees at his previous school and thanks to his mum’s ingenuity and craft she managed to find him a spot elsewhere at an exceptional state school, which he absolutely adored.

I am surrounded professionally by those that have had the benefit of a private education and there are clear advantages in terms of facilities, class sizes and the connections it provides - otherwise why pay all that money? It’s a natural human instinct to want the best for your own child, and I would never criticise anyone for that.

As I’ve said previously, I defend anyone’s right to make that choice but the benefits that education provides is by way of a professional service that people elect to pay for, in order to gain some clear advantage over other children. Much like instructing a lawyer to give you a perceived advantage in litigation. Those professional fees are subject to VAT, just are those of an accountant, and I fail to see how private education should be any different.

It will mean some children missing the cut, which is regrettable, but that is plainly the case now, by way of the foregoing increases in fees, or the cost in any event, which is completely beyond most families. There is no more tragedy in missing that cut, than the opportunities that are missing from many children’s lives every day. Life isn’t fair and never will be, but charging VAT on school fees is a very small step in making our society ever so slightly fairer overall.

Beer duty goes up, some pubs will close as a consequence. It’s a shame on an individual level, but there will always be cases of particular hardship when it comes to the implementation broad taxation policy. This is no different.

 

[johnnytapia]

It’s not like school fees haven’t increased way ahead of inflation in recent years. The average cost of private school fees has risen by 20% in real terms since 2010, and by 55% since 2003, even without VAT.

So presumably there will have been plenty of parents who have had to remove their kids from private education over the last decade or two because of the relatively increasing cost.

Where was the outrage at that?

I’ve perhaps got a bit more insight into this particular subject than most, as my son went to private school but had to be moved to a state (boarding) school when my business failed and I went bankrupt fifteen years ago. Serendipitously, he actually benefited enormously from that move and he went from being an average student to an excellent one as a consequence.

The reality was that me and his mum could no longer afford the fees at his previous school and thanks to his mum’s ingenuity and craft she managed to find him a spot elsewhere at an exceptional state school, which he absolutely adored.

I am surrounded professionally by those that have had the benefit of a private education and there are clear advantages in terms of facilities, class sizes and the connections it provides - otherwise why pay all that money? It’s a natural human instinct to want the best for your own child, and I would never criticise anyone for that.

As I’ve said previously, I defend anyone’s right to make that choice but the benefits that education provides is by way of a professional service that people elect to pay for, in order to gain some clear advantage over other children. Much like instructing a lawyer to give you a perceived advantage in litigation. Those professional fees are subject to VAT, just are those of an accountant, and I fail to see how private education should be any different.

It will mean some children missing the cut, which is regrettable, but that is plainly the case now, by way of the foregoing increases in fees, or the cost in any event, which is completely beyond most families. There is no more tragedy in missing that cut, than the opportunities that are missing from many children’s lives every day. Life isn’t fair and never will be, but charging VAT on school fees is a very small step in making our society ever so slightly fairer overall.

Beer duty goes up, some pubs will close as a consequence. It’s a shame on an individual level, but there will always be cases of particular hardship when it comes to the implementation broad taxation policy. This is no different.

There endeth the debate.

 

[meltonblue]

I am surrounded professionally by those that have had the benefit of a private education and there are clear advantages in terms of facilities, class sizes and the connections it provides - otherwise why pay all that money? It’s a natural human instinct to want the best for your own child, and I would never criticise anyone for that.

I am too as well as most of my secondary school being privately educated at primary. My experiences made me actively choose not to send my kids privately. There’s absolutely benefits but there’s a fair amount of negatives too. I don’t begrudge people making either decision.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I am too as well as most of my secondary school being privately educated at primary. My experiences made me actively choose not to send my kids privately. There’s absolutely benefits but there’s a fair amount of negatives too. I don’t begrudge people making either decision.

Yes, I think the significance on the positives and negatives depends on the kid, their personal characteristics and qualities, and of course the particular school. I think a good comprehensive education is as good as a standard private one, but there are huge disparities within the state sector.

 

[meltonblue]

Yes, I think the significance on the positives and negatives depends on the kid, their personal characteristics and qualities, and of course the particular school. I think a good comprehensive education is as good as a standard private one, but there are huge disparities within the state sector.

Completely agree and I don’t think people should underestimate the importance of the emotional and social growth of a child as part of that overall education.

The other aspect is what people want it to lead to. A lot where I went were privately educated in order to try and get into the grammar school. When it got to the 11 plus, the private school effectively did tutoring to ensure the pupils could pass it. As soon as they got to the grammar school, plenty couldn’t cope as they’d essentially fudged the academic attainment part of it and ended up not getting decent qualifications as as soon as you were left behind in a subject, that was it.

They’d have been much better off either remaining in private or switching to the state.

 

[metalblue]

It’s not like school fees haven’t increased way ahead of inflation in recent years. The average cost of private school fees has risen by 20% in real terms since 2010, and by 55% since 2003, even without VAT.

So presumably there will have been plenty of parents who have had to remove their kids from private education over the last decade or two because of the relatively increasing cost.

Where was the outrage at that?

I’ve perhaps got a bit more insight into this particular subject than most, as my son went to private school but had to be moved to a state (boarding) school when my business failed and I went bankrupt fifteen years ago. Serendipitously, he actually benefited enormously from that move and he went from being an average student to an excellent one as a consequence.

The reality was that me and his mum could no longer afford the fees at his previous school and thanks to his mum’s ingenuity and craft she managed to find him a spot elsewhere at an exceptional state school, which he absolutely adored.

I am surrounded professionally by those that have had the benefit of a private education and there are clear advantages in terms of facilities, class sizes and the connections it provides - otherwise why pay all that money? It’s a natural human instinct to want the best for your own child, and I would never criticise anyone for that.

As I’ve said previously, I defend anyone’s right to make that choice but the benefits that education provides is by way of a professional service that people elect to pay for, in order to gain some clear advantage over other children. Much like instructing a lawyer to give you a perceived advantage in litigation. Those professional fees are subject to VAT, just are those of an accountant, and I fail to see how private education should be any different.

It will mean some children missing the cut, which is regrettable, but that is plainly the case now, by way of the foregoing increases in fees, or the cost in any event, which is completely beyond most families. There is no more tragedy in missing that cut, than the opportunities that are missing from many children’s lives every day. Life isn’t fair and never will be, but charging VAT on school fees is a very small step in making our society ever so slightly fairer overall.

Beer duty goes up, some pubs will close as a consequence. It’s a shame on an individual level, but there will always be cases of particular hardship when it comes to the implementation broad taxation policy. This is no different.

I just don’t see how VAT passes the ECHR plurality of choice test.

Explicitly impairing the existence of private schools is incompatible with article 2. The only argument I see that needs to be won by the private schools is VAT may cause schools to close.

I suppose Labour could a) withdraw us from the ECHR to get it through or b) lose the case with good grace and a few words about how we tried dear comrades. I’m inclined to think (b) was their plan all along.