Virgil van Dijk
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
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You obviously don't understand how stats are used by professional clubs. They aren't used to create an attempt at objective player ratings, they aren't used to say, "Well done Nico, yes you cost us the game but OPTA say you attempted the most tackles so nice job".
No one at City HQ is feeding Pep the "squawka attack score" to reinforce his decision to drop Aguero.
You're mocking people for not understanding statistics and yet you seem to think Pep and co are gathered around Whoscored.com or Sqauwka when in reality they're using far far more detailed statistics then any of those companies have access too, and they're looking at far more situational statistics with much greater context then "% of headed duels won" or "number of interceptions".
People have disdain not for statistics or their use in football, but for shit statistics and attempts to use them in social media punditry.
Andrew___K
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Good post. Reading some 'stats analysts' here makes my eyes bleed, sometimes I get the feeling they don't watch games, just quote stupid stats sites. Otamendi is a brainless defender, his mere presence in starting 11 instills more fear in me than Bravo in goals. Yet some will say that 'whoscored rates him' and 'Madrid is interested' (which is rubbish, Ota is Valencia level at best). B.Silva was my dream signing this summer, my next wish is seeing Otamendi booted out and replaced by a reliable defender.That last point is very interesting because you've got it the completely the wrong way around.
Precisely the reason why many people have a "disdain for stats" is because many of those obsessives who would likely want to base every decision the club makes with regards to playing staff based on the handful of percentages they read simply don't understand them and don't know how to apply them.
Hearing things like "Otamendi was our best defender according to whoscored" and "this guy only has 76% pass accuracy so he isn't a Pep player" are painful to listen to because it's an oversimplification of what is a very complex sport.
I've moaned about the overemphasis of the importance of statistical analysis before and a big reason for that is because we have many posters who think they know enough about a player they've never seen simply by looking at his statistics on a website. It's not a super special formula which proves the worth of a player, it's a bunch of reflective figures which often have zero bearing on the future performances of the player.
For example, compare Bravo's pass accuracy at Sociedad to when he was at Barcelona. How did Barca's coaching staff know he was capable of changing his game and applying their principles to a very high standard? Because they take a hell of a lot more into consideration than just a couple of numbers. Otamendi has been a good example because there doesn't seem to be any widely published collection of statistics which would indicate just how inexplicably amateur his positioning has been in the majority of the matches he has played for us. However, I can't be arsed to go into that because he seems to be a favourite and, to be fair to the guy, I think he has been superb in nearly every game since Monaco at the Etihad.
This is precisely why analysists play a specific role within a club, rather than making the decisions by themselves; these figures are useful tools and not the single pillar with which to hold up any knowledge you think you have on the game and it's players. And you know what? The people Pep works with and the people the club hire to carry out this analsyis do actually know what they're doing and are qualified for that role. They don't just think they know what they're talking about simply because they have access to a couple of websites and therefore think that they don't have to actually watch player play because they're seeing the game for what it really is:
And it's so, so much more than that.
pavelsrnicek
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There looks to be competition with Chelsea and Liverpool. Liverpool did appear to be in the box seat on this one. I'd say Southampton will be lapping this up, nothing better than an auction on a player. It means its harder to get the player to agree and then try and push down the price which appears to be Txiki's modus operandi.
So many non-sequiturs to respond to. FML.
Firstly, pretty presumptuous of you to claim that you know what my understanding of statistics is when I haven't even mentioned anything related to it. Funny that.
Since you brought it up sunshine, I think it's fairly obvious that data is used to reinforce decisions and provide insights that aren't obvious to the eye, rather than be the sole basis on which decisions are made with regards to a player. That is pretty much how data is used in EVERY industry with the advent of Big Data and advances in Machine Learning. So save your face before you embarrass yourself by attempting to censure my understanding of something which you might think is oh-so-spooky-and-mysterious that most can't know.
Moreover, it's hilarious you think the companies that provide analytical services use 'far far' more complicated metrics, presumably just because you've no idea what the hell they do. WhoScored uses data from Opta, the leading data analytics company on football statistics, which also happens to sell its data to many of the other companies whose services City elicit.
The original post I made was for people who seem to be claiming the use of statistics is nonsense in totality. Nothing was mentioned about the validity of its use in relation to social punditry.
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blueinsa
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For a new member on here you seem to have no issue with being incredibly confrontational right from the off?
Put in another way mate, just because Otamendi's handful of brain-dead actions in certain games leaves such strong impressions on the fans, doesn't negate the fact that he's done other things over the full 90-minutes which fans don't pay attention to and which might be good.
That's one of the crucial reasons why clubs pay top dollar to hire stats people: to help find out the good/bad things players did aside from the ones which are obvious or leave an emotionally charged impression (either brain-dead actions or inspiring ones).
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
you clearly dont go to matches to come up with that
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
It's used on here mainly to try and win arguments & it's mostly utter garbage because the stats used are not detailed enough & circumstances almost never taken into consideration.
Otamendi is a great example because pretty much every ex pro who has watched a City game has at some point singled him out as not being good enough, yet he almost always has decent stats. The stats which show his flaws will be far too complex are not used on the dumbed down versions available to the general public.
And even the complex stats will only be used by soneone like Guardiola as a tool to backup his own impression of a player, gained from actually watching him play.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
If we genuinely are trying to sign VVD, I would like to know which person at the club was responsible for ignoring him when he left Celtic, seeing as it appears the club will almost certainly have been scouting him at that time.
I recon I can fucking guess mind you.
I recon I can fucking guess mind you.
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