meltonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 14 May 2013
- Messages
- 7,094
It’s a way of trying to balance the books, it’s not the only way.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Warm Banks
- Thread starter Nethermoor
- Start date
It’s a way of trying to balance the books, it’s not the only way.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Well, I didn't know that "austerity" had been redefined to mean the opposite of its original meaning.
That's as bad as the planning judge who defined the three types of harm to listed buildings: substantial harm, less than substantial harm, and no harm. (How can "no harm" be a type of harm?)
Under this perverse definition, then, the austerity of the Tory/LibDem coalition was even more unnecessary, and even more purely ideological.
I look forward to Labour's increasing the top tax rate and calling it "the politics of Austerity for the Rich".
If it was to get rid of a deficit it would just be austerity.
The austerity the Tory/lib dems implement was, as history shows us, the wrong form of austerity. Ideologically driven? Almost certainly, in the same way your last sentence of Labour taxing the “rich” more would be ideologically driven (although probably fairer).
metalblue
Well-Known Member
It’s a way of trying to balance the books, it’s not the only way.
What other way? Spend the money more efficiently perhaps? The quickest hammer is to either raise taxes, reduce spending, or do a bit of both
Rascal
El Presidente
Raise spending and invest in growth, infrastructure, skills, housing, innovation, education, health and insulate the country against the crisis that are inherently part of any capitalist system.What other way? Spend the money more efficiently perhaps? The quickest hammer is to either raise taxes, reduce spending, or do a bit of both
Below copied from https://www.raisin.co.uk/finance-glossary/austerity/
The goal of austerity is to reduce government debt. Still, many people debate this measure’s effectiveness, arguing that a massive deficit can have a greater impact on the economy.
Opponents of austerity believe that government programs are the only way to make up for reduced personal consumption during a recession. John Maynard Keynes, a revolutionary British economist, believed that the government’s role was to increase spending during a recession to replace falling demand. His logic was that if the government does not meet demand, unemployment will rise, prolonging a recession.
In an economic downturn, falling income reduces the amount of tax a government can generate. In the same way, a government boosts tax revenue during an economic boom. The irony of this is that public expenses, such as employment benefits, are needed much more during a recession than an economic boom.
Many reports claim that the effects of austerity in the UK have led to increased levels of poverty and unemployment. According to the United Nations, the government has announced more than £30 billion in cuts to welfare payments, housing and social services since 2010. The British government cut over 200,000 public sector jobs in 2011, with people of colour, particularly women, being disproportionately impacted by job cuts because they are more likely to be employed in low-paying, public sector jobs or unsecured work.
Although the British government has disputed these findings, demand for food banks has almost doubled, and some families receiving benefits are now thousands of pounds worse off. Some research has even suggested that the crime rate has also increased because of cutbacks to the police force. Meanwhile, local spending cuts have forced many libraries and museums to scale back their services, with around 800 libraries thought to have now closed completely since austerity measures were introduced in 2010.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Raise spending and invest in growth, infrastructure, skills, housing, innovation, education, health and insulate the country against the crisis that are inherently part of any capitalist system.
Below copied from https://www.raisin.co.uk/finance-glossary/austerity/
The goal of austerity is to reduce government debt. Still, many people debate this measure’s effectiveness, arguing that a massive deficit can have a greater impact on the economy.
Opponents of austerity believe that government programs are the only way to make up for reduced personal consumption during a recession. John Maynard Keynes, a revolutionary British economist, believed that the government’s role was to increase spending during a recession to replace falling demand. His logic was that if the government does not meet demand, unemployment will rise, prolonging a recession.
In an economic downturn, falling income reduces the amount of tax a government can generate. In the same way, a government boosts tax revenue during an economic boom. The irony of this is that public expenses, such as employment benefits, are needed much more during a recession than an economic boom.
Many reports claim that the effects of austerity in the UK have led to increased levels of poverty and unemployment. According to the United Nations, the government has announced more than £30 billion in cuts to welfare payments, housing and social services since 2010. The British government cut over 200,000 public sector jobs in 2011, with people of colour, particularly women, being disproportionately impacted by job cuts because they are more likely to be employed in low-paying, public sector jobs or unsecured work.
Although the British government has disputed these findings, demand for food banks has almost doubled, and some families receiving benefits are now thousands of pounds worse off. Some research has even suggested that the crime rate has also increased because of cutbacks to the police force. Meanwhile, local spending cuts have forced many libraries and museums to scale back their services, with around 800 libraries thought to have now closed completely since austerity measures were introduced in 2010.
Hi mate. I don’t think you have to be an opponent of austerity to agree that increasing spending during a recession is good governance. The general logic is you save during periods of growth periods and spend during recessions - the net of the two periods is balanced books, give to take.
Probably the biggest culprit for our stagnated growth has been government propping up non-existent private and public sector wage increases with raising the tax free allowance. Governments don’t tend to create sustainable economic growth in isolation, it requires the private sector to grow at a faster pace - in turn the government spends more on public sector. Supermarkets, for example, haven’t been incentivised to pay their staff properly for years. I can’t understand why we allow these huge housing developments to occur and at best our demand is build a new school or extend the existing ones - great stick a few bricks up and we’re done - no long term funding for this school not to mention all these people needing hospitals and GP’s etc. We’ve let companies take the piss for too long and I say that as someone who is economically on the right and believe profit is good.
Mrs JASR recounts a story from A&E where a young man came into the dept complaining of a really bad back.Fell asleep on top of a huge speaker in a club in Amsterdam once!
Turned out he’d fallen asleep lying on his back bent over a concrete traffic post after a night out…
Mr Kobayashi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2020
- Messages
- 17,251
That’s where the term hungover is supposed to originate.
They'll never get dry hanging like that.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
Couple of cafe owners i know tell me trade is booming. Customers claim its cheaper to get their main meal of the day at a cafe than cooking at home and having the heating on.
I wonder if a secondary reason for austerity is the fact that pre-COVID it was effectively mandated to a degree by the EU? This isn't to say that the Tories didn't go too far or didn't instigate it here but opinion on central bank vs economic policy varied wildly in Europe. It's not like it was frowned upon by the likes of the ECB and Germany who attempted to instigate hefty austerity on countries in exchange for emergency support across Europe.Hi mate. I don’t think you have to be an opponent of austerity to agree that increasing spending during a recession is good governance. The general logic is you save during periods of growth periods and spend during recessions - the net of the two periods is balanced books, give to take.
Probably the biggest culprit for our stagnated growth has been government propping up non-existent private and public sector wage increases with raising the tax free allowance. Governments don’t tend to create sustainable economic growth in isolation, it requires the private sector to grow at a faster pace - in turn the government spends more on public sector. Supermarkets, for example, haven’t been incentivised to pay their staff properly for years. I can’t understand why we allow these huge housing developments to occur and at best our demand is build a new school or extend the existing ones - great stick a few bricks up and we’re done - no long term funding for this school not to mention all these people needing hospitals and GP’s etc. We’ve let companies take the piss for too long and I say that as someone who is economically on the right and believe profit is good.
All EU countries are expected to run budgetary deficits below 3% and GDP-debt below 60%. The UK deficit is currently 7.2% and GDP-debt 103%, although we are exempt from any fiscal intervention due to being outside of the Euro (and obviously now being outside the EU).
Countries like Greece know the impact of this all too well so it's an interesting quandry for pro-spending, pro-EU folk. This is partially why quite a few of those who sit much further on the left of the spectrum were actually pro-leave.
Last edited:
Austerity is the very balancing of books - it’s meaning has been lost due to how people experienced it. How it was implemented following the financial crisis was definitely wrong. As previously mentioned the OBR said it was great and how growth would return. Experts eh?
It’s a way of trying to balance the books, it’s not the only way.
Balancing the books is a completely meaningles catchphrase on the national economic level.
Conservatives peddling the idea that the economy is like a household budget are knowingly lying about how economies work because it gives them cover to slash public spending.
A reminder that the 2010 Conservatives campaigned on eliminating the national debt by 2015. It's 2022 and they've quadrupled it.
Last edited: