Weight loss jabs

[anyoldblu]

Great response to a question I didn't ask.

I didn't ask why people are addicted, I asked why people are not addressing the underlying factors with their relationship with food. And I acknowledge some people have a natural addiction issue, but that's not most people's cases.

Once that underlying issue is locked in to control/ understand, control of food should be way easier once breaking the habit/ routine of comfort eating.

Let's see if this works for you. A significant reason is that people often lack knowledge about how profoundly our emotions influence our food choices. Society frequently reduces weight management to simply 'eating less' or 'having more willpower,' overlooking the broader picture of emotional triggers, learned behaviours, and even past experiences that can influence our eating habits. People might genuinely not realise their constant cravings or comfort eating come from things like stress, feeling lonely, or past events. Instead, they might think they're failing or lack discipline. Additionally, delving into these deeper issues can be quite challenging and distressing. Often, you need professional help, which can be hard to obtain, too expensive, or something people feel ashamed about, leading many to avoid the self-reflection necessary for real change.

The idea that sorting out your emotional issues makes controlling food 'much easier' sounds good, and there's some truth to it. Understanding and managing these triggers can significantly reduce emotional eating. But it's also a bit more complicated than that. Breaking old habits and routines, even once you understand what is causing them emotionally, requires ongoing effort, learning new ways to cope, and often, adjusting your daily life. Your body's natural 'set point' for weight, combined with the strong pull of ultra-processed foods, can also make things difficult. So, while dealing with the emotional roots is a huge step towards gaining freedom from unhealthy eating patterns, it is frequently a journey of continuous learning and adjusting, rather than just one moment that fixes everything.

So, when we examine why people struggle with their relationship with food, it becomes clear that there is no single reason. For each person, it's a unique blend of how their mind works and feels, along with how their body is naturally built and reacts. This mix is why a 'one size fits all' approach rarely works. Instead, what is truly needed is a personalised approach to dealing with things, with tailored guidance and support that fits the individual's specific needs. This explains why some people might seem to 'knuckle down' and succeed quickly, perhaps because their mix of challenges is less intense or they have stronger coping skills, while others, facing a more complex blend of biological and psychological hurdles, might try their hardest but find themselves struggling again after just a week or a month.

In short, people will succeed more if they enter a long-term program like oviva.com, which brings together diet, coaching, education, psychologists and drugs.

However, before starting a program, the person has to acknowledge that they have an issue and, secondly, that they want to change. Many addicts know they are addicted, but they are happy with the buzz from the addiction and don't want to change. To learn more about change cycles in addiction, Prochaska and DiClemente's Stages of Change model is a good start.

 

[anyoldblu]

I’m an FOC and noticed the last few years I’d put a lot of fat on around the middle, due in no small part to years working away with nothing else to do but eat and drink. Have to admit my diet was awful, lots of chocolate, biscuits, flapjacks, chips, pizza etc. Two months ago I decided to do something about it. I started riding my bike again, and started the couch to 5k. But the biggest change was to all the crap I was eating, 4 chocolate bars a day at work, plus a flapjack, then chips from the canteen. I no longer eat any of that stuff, and have even started cooking healthy meals. I’ve lost a stone and generally feel healthier, and my skin seems to have improved. I’ve also saved a fair bit of money by not repeatedly visiting the vending machine at work.

Good for you for recognising the issue and proactively dealing with it. UPFs are genuinely one of the evils of the modern world, coupled with the easy availability of "sweet treats". Cooking from scratch and pulling as many UPFs as possible from your diet is an excellent strategy for losing weight, as you've shown.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Let's see if this works for you. A significant reason is that people often lack knowledge about how profoundly our emotions influence our food choices. Society frequently reduces weight management to simply 'eating less' or 'having more willpower,' overlooking the broader picture of emotional triggers, learned behaviours, and even past experiences that can influence our eating habits. People might genuinely not realise their constant cravings or comfort eating come from things like stress, feeling lonely, or past events. Instead, they might think they're failing or lack discipline. Additionally, delving into these deeper issues can be quite challenging and distressing. Often, you need professional help, which can be hard to obtain, too expensive, or something people feel ashamed about, leading many to avoid the self-reflection necessary for real change.

The idea that sorting out your emotional issues makes controlling food 'much easier' sounds good, and there's some truth to it. Understanding and managing these triggers can significantly reduce emotional eating. But it's also a bit more complicated than that. Breaking old habits and routines, even once you understand what is causing them emotionally, requires ongoing effort, learning new ways to cope, and often, adjusting your daily life. Your body's natural 'set point' for weight, combined with the strong pull of ultra-processed foods, can also make things difficult. So, while dealing with the emotional roots is a huge step towards gaining freedom from unhealthy eating patterns, it is frequently a journey of continuous learning and adjusting, rather than just one moment that fixes everything.

So, when we examine why people struggle with their relationship with food, it becomes clear that there is no single reason. For each person, it's a unique blend of how their mind works and feels, along with how their body is naturally built and reacts. This mix is why a 'one size fits all' approach rarely works. Instead, what is truly needed is a personalised approach to dealing with things, with tailored guidance and support that fits the individual's specific needs. This explains why some people might seem to 'knuckle down' and succeed quickly, perhaps because their mix of challenges is less intense or they have stronger coping skills, while others, facing a more complex blend of biological and psychological hurdles, might try their hardest but find themselves struggling again after just a week or a month.

In short, people will succeed more if they enter a long-term program like oviva.com, which brings together diet, coaching, education, psychologists and drugs.

However, before starting a program, the person has to acknowledge that they have an issue and, secondly, that they want to change. Many addicts know they are addicted, but they are happy with the buzz from the addiction and don't want to change. To learn more about change cycles in addiction, Prochaska and DiClemente's Stages of Change model is a good start.

We're all different, but the basic calories in being less than calories out - moving more and eating less works for everyone. Matter cannot be created from nothing.

 

[anyoldblu]

We're all different, but the basic calories in being less than calories out - moving more and eating less works for everyone. Matter cannot be created from nothing.

While "calories in versus calories out" is a fundamental physical law, this claim is overly simplistic for human weight management. It ignores the complex biological, psychological, and environmental factors unique to each person that profoundly influence appetite, metabolism, and the ability to consistently eat less or move more.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

While "calories in versus calories out" is a fundamental physical law, this claim is overly simplistic for human weight management. It ignores the complex biological, psychological, and environmental factors unique to each person that profoundly influence appetite, metabolism, and the ability to consistently eat less or move more.

Angus Barbieri's fast - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[anyoldblu]

Angus Barbieri's fast - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A man checks into the hospital for a mammoth fast, resetting his environmental and behavioural cues in a controlled environment for over a year.

Just like Dave, who's hooked on UPF junk food, has a limited income, no support network and is quite happy with his current weight.

Your point is?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

We're all different, but the basic calories in being less than calories out - moving more and eating less works for everyone. Matter cannot be created from nothing.

I remember someone giving the analogy of an itch. Sure "just don't scratch it" might be the correct advice and pretty simple and obvious. But try actually doing that for a day, a week, a month through all of the stresses of normal life, and you'll see what level of willpower is required.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

A man checks into the hospital for a mammoth fast, resetting his environmental and behavioural cues in a controlled environment for over a year.

Just like Dave, who's hooked on UPF junk food, has a limited income, no support network and is quite happy with his current weight.

Your point is?

He stopped stuffing his fat face.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I remember someone giving the analogy of an itch. Sure "just don't scratch it" might be the correct advice and pretty simple and obvious. But try actually doing that for a day, a week, a month through all of the stresses of normal life, and you'll see what level of willpower is required.

I have done. Most of us do exercise self control in many respects. It's part of being a functioning adult.
Many of us also fail - drink, drugs food (gluttony or other disorders). I understand the issues of mental health and addiction etc, but it doesn't alter the fact that to be less fat you just need to eat less food.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I have done. Most of us do exercise self control in many respects. It's part of being a functioning adult.
Many of us also fail - drink, drugs food (gluttony or other disorders). I understand the issues of mental health and addiction etc, but it doesn't alter the fact that to be less fat you just need to eat less food.

But are you not an alcoholic because you exercise greater self-control than the addict, or just because your body doesn't give you the same urges in response to alcohol? Yes, obviously the solution is for fat people to eat less and move more, but let's not pretend that's entirely an individual issue rather than a product of the society that we've surrounded these people with. People haven't become intrinsically lazier or less self-controlled since the 60s, but they have become surrounded by huge quantities of calorie-dense, convenient food choices that are specifically engineered to get them to eat as much as possible. We can all sit there and wait for everyone to magically get more self-control, but I think we'll be waiting forever.

 

[anyoldblu]

He stopped stuffing his fat face.

It's fascinating how some people can boil a complex health journey down to a simple, classless remark, while simultaneously demonstrating that they've failed to digest (no pun intended) any real information on the topic.

 

[halfmist]

This is a case where politics clashes with Economics and common sense .
People are given a choice, do nothing about their weight in the vain hope they qualify for the NHS funded programme or, pay for it privately at a “charge what you like price” from the manufacturers.
Without doubt the NHS pay only a fraction of the cost Joe Public pays due to bulk buying.
Would it not make sense for the NHS to buy more and then make the excess available on a prescription, say at twice the cost they pay for it, then the profit would not only reduce the waiting list for those who currently qualify, but also those waiting further down the qualification tables.
Demand would increase, dropping the cost per unit of buying by the NHS and we have a snowball effect.
The drug companies could not argue about the programme, as the NHS are not offering it on the open market.
I know a few lefties would jump up and down shouting “should be free at the point of delivery, Bevan will be turning in his grave” but if it helps treat more of those who will never be able to afford to pay market price, or, make it on to the 12 year waiting list for those who currently qualify, then I am all for it.
It would self fund and expand the program with no cost to the tax payer.
A win win situation.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It's fascinating how some people can boil a complex health journey down to a simple, classless remark, while simultaneously demonstrating that they've failed to digest (no pun intended) any real information on the topic.

It's also fascinating how some people can expand a simple matter of energy In v energy out into some sort of disease or victim hood that deserves a more complicated analysis to avoid the uncomfortable truth.
I say this as someone who has been a fat **** and is likely to give it another go in a few years time. We just need to visit the fridge less.

 

[Bigga]

A man checks into the hospital for a mammoth fast, resetting his environmental and behavioural cues in a controlled environment for over a year.

Just like Dave, who's hooked on UPF junk food, has a limited income, no support network and is quite happy with his current weight.

Your point is?

Honestly trying to be objective in this discussion, but you're not making it easy. Sounds like excuses and self control issues.

To 'reset an environmental' is often a choice and 'behavioural cues' is also a choice or addiction issues, which can be tackled with a different mindset and determination and/ or professional help. Is this not just being "weak-willed" for most?

There's a chippy up the road; choose not to go in every day, make it every other day and then a once a month treat. Used to buying 4 bottles of 2 Ltr coke in the week? Buy 3 in the week, make one water and change up til it 4 bottles of water in the week.

I understand there are some whose bodies are not like a standard body, they are not the ones most people are talking about. The rest CAN do something about their choices because they PHYSICALLY have to buy the products or choose not to.

Deal with the underlying reasons of poor choices. Most people are the same with said choices.

The problem with the jabs is that they solve the outer result, not the mental relationship with food.

 

[anyoldblu]

It's also fascinating how some people can expand a simple matter of energy In v energy out into some sort of disease or victim hood that deserves a more complicated analysis to avoid the uncomfortable truth.
I say this as someone who has been a fat **** and is likely to give it another go in a few years time. We just need to visit the fridge less.

It's truly fascinating how conveniently one's personal, admittedly uncomplicated, experience can shape a worldview that neatly dismisses extensive scientific research and the lived realities of millions as mere 'complicated analysis' or 'victimhood.' It must be wonderfully simple to believe that everyone else's body chemistry, environment, and psychological landscape conveniently align with one's own rather direct relationship with the fridge, allowing them to ignore the very variables that make a 'simple matter' anything but.

Perhaps, when you're ready to take your head out of the fridge and invest a little in your own self-development, "The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Clearly and Others Don't" by Julia Galef would be a particularly fitting place to begin that journey.

Honestly trying to be objective in this discussion, but you're not making it easy. Sounds like excuses and self control issues.

To 'reset an environmental' is often a choice and 'behavioural cues' is also a choice or addiction issues, which can be tackled with a different mindset and determination and/ or professional help. Is this not just being "weak-willed" for most?

There's a chippy up the road; choose not to go in every day, make it every other day and then a once a month treat. Used to buying 4 bottles of 2 Ltr coke in the week? Buy 3 in the week, make one water and change up til it 4 bottles of water in the week.

I understand there are some whose bodies are not like a standard body, they are not the ones most people are talking about. The rest CAN do something about their choices because they PHYSICALLY have to buy the products or choose not to.

Deal with the underlying reasons of poor choices. Most people are the same with said choices.

The problem with the jabs is that they solve the outer result, not the mental relationship with food.

You're right - it is all about choices and self-control. Yes - the jabs will help with some of the drive to eat, but they won't change the relationship. Which is why I wrote this

In short, people will succeed more if they enter a long-term program like oviva.com, which brings together diet, coaching, education, psychologists and drugs.

However, before starting a program, the person has to acknowledge that they have an issue and, secondly, that they want to change. Many addicts know they are addicted, but they are happy with the buzz from the addiction and don't want to change.

Posting a single study about one bloke who locked themselves in a hospital for over a year on a medically supervised fast does not provide any meaningful help for the general population. Nor does the "just eat less" narrative.

If it were that easy, why do we have an obesity epidemic? Why don't people say, "I'll just eat less" and do it?

You may say it's because they lack the will or self-control. And that's when we return to the environmental, behavioural and emotional factors you seem so keen to dismiss.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It's truly fascinating how conveniently one's personal, admittedly uncomplicated, experience can shape a worldview that neatly dismisses extensive scientific research and the lived realities of millions as mere 'complicated analysis' or 'victimhood.' It must be wonderfully simple to believe that everyone else's body chemistry, environment, and psychological landscape conveniently align with one's own rather direct relationship with the fridge, allowing them to ignore the very variables that make a 'simple matter' anything but.

Perhaps, when you're ready to take your head out of the fridge and invest a little in your own self-development, "The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Clearly and Others Don't" by Julia Galef would be a particularly fitting place to begin that journey.



You're right - it is all about choices and self-control. Yes - the jabs will help with some of the drive to eat, but they won't change the relationship. Which is why I wrote this



Posting a single study about one bloke who locked themselves in a hospital for over a year on a medically supervised fast does not provide any meaningful help for the general population. Nor does the "just eat less" narrative.

If it were that easy, why do we have an obesity epidemic? Why don't people say, "I'll just eat less" and do it?

You may say it's because they lack the will or self-control. And that's when we return to the environmental, behavioural and emotional factors you seem so keen to dismiss.

It all just comes down to eating less. The modern trend of making everything a 'syndrome' and creating excuses for self harming behaviours is not helping anyone. Least of all those who are literally eating themselves into an early grave.

 

[Bigga]

You're right - it is all about choices and self-control. Yes - the jabs will help with some of the drive to eat, but they won't change the relationship. Which is why I wrote this



Posting a single study about one bloke who locked themselves in a hospital for over a year on a medically supervised fast does not provide any meaningful help for the general population. Nor does the "just eat less" narrative.

If it were that easy, why do we have an obesity epidemic? Why don't people say, "I'll just eat less" and do it?

You may say it's because they lack the will or self-control. And that's when we return to the environmental, behavioural and emotional factors you seem so keen to dismiss.

No, this is becoming a circular discussion.

Nobody makes anyone spend their money on shit food. that's your 'environmental' discussion sorted. 'Behavioural' and 'emotional' is something that the individual chooses or chooses not to deal with.

Let me put it this way... if you have consciously made choices to put food in your mouth thus become a bigger person and you don't like what you see in the mirror, therefore eat out of depression, that is a choice you decided on by ignoring the issue that got you there. The chippy, the fast food outlets etc., are not attached to your wallet. They are not direct debited from your account; these are choices!

If it's not a medical/ unfortunate hereditary condition, there's no reason you can't tackle the issue that drives one to do self harm.

Ironically, this what "you seem so keen to dismiss" and make it a footnote in your entire thesis.

 

[domalino]

Great response to a question I didn't ask.

I didn't ask why people are addicted, I asked why people are not addressing the underlying factors with their relationship with food. And I acknowledge some people have a natural addiction issue, but that's not most people's cases.

The question you asked is kind of irrelevant because it’s based on an assumption pulled from thin air (you’ve not provided anything to back up your assertion and have no qualifications to make it).

But if you really want someone to engage then I’d guess the obvious answer is that “fixing” your psychological relationship with food doesn’t actually make you lose weight.

It’ll stop you putting on weight, but if you’ve been eating yourself to death for 10 years because of depression or trauma or because it’s how you’ve learned to deal with whatever stresses in your life, you still have to then lose the weight you’ve piled on.

Also from what I’ve seen of a couple of friends who were very early on ozempic over here, the jab itself does address these issues and that’s part of its success. I have one friend who lost about 35kg on it over 9 months last year and he’s been off it for almost as long and hasn’t put any weight back on, because 9 months not having the constant craving to eat gave broke that connection, and losing 7 stone or so means now he can go running every few days and that’s what de-stresses him the way 4 pints and a curry used to.

The other person I know on the jab lost less weight and didn’t hit the gym at the same time, but he just has so much more energy now he’s not obese and carrying around the weight of a toddler every day that he’s still losing weight just by living his life and being used to small portions.

 

[domalino]

The modern trend of making everything a 'syndrome' and creating excuses for self harming behaviours is not helping anyone. Least of all those who are literally eating themselves into an early grave.

Seems like a weird thread to make this argument seeing as the modern trend of making everything a “syndrome” has in this case created a very effective drug that stops these people eating themselves into an early grave (helping them, and us the taxpayers).

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Seems like a weird thread to make this argument seeing as the modern trend of making everything a “syndrome” has in this case created a very effective drug that stops these people eating themselves into an early grave (helping them, and us the taxpayers).

Nothing against the use of the drug and 100% agree with you on positives very much like prescription methodone. I don't agree with the idea that obesity is an illness that can't be avoided though.