What Is The True Status Of The Champions League?

[hello]

To me it'll always be the UEFA CCCC (Cartel Cash Cow Cup)

Of course I'ld like to see City win it, I want us to win everything we enter, isn't that the basic concept of the game!

Prestige wise I don't rate it, every rule change is just to spin more cash and narrow exclusivity on entry to favour the cartel when a few of them are struggling. It neither a league nor a cup, purely a TV and sponsorship competition.

 

[Metalartin]

You're dismissing some very good teams there.

Eastern European teams like Dynamo Dresden and Dynamo Berlin were state funded and their best players weren't allowed to leave.

Borussia Mönchengladbach were one of 'Europe's elite' at the time. They also had Allan Simonsen, the European Footballer of the Year in their team when they played Liverpool in '77.

Hamburg had Keegan who was the current European Footballer of the Year when they played Forest in '80.

St Etienne had Platini and Rocheteau.

If the European Cup was easier to win, why didn't the bigger teams win it every year like they do most years in the Champions League?

I think you have it backwards, surely you can see in those days it was possible for a smaller team to pull off a shock and win the whole thing(get a good team together under a good manager and go the whole way). In this era, the closest we have had was Chelsea beating Bayern. Ajax getting to the semis was considered a shock this year, it just doesn't compare whatsoever to those days.

The days where it was an even playing field are long gone, probably even before it was reborn as the Champions League in the 90s, along with Premier League.

 

[jrb]

Errr, harder to get in but once in much much easier to win.

Liverpool 1977: Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne, FC Zurich, Borussia Munchengladbach - hardly Europe's elite!

And if you think that was a one-off:

Liverpool 1978: Bye, Dynamo Dresden, Benfica, Borussia Munchengladbach, Bruges - a bit harder but not much

Not just to pick on the scousers:

Nottingham Forest 1979: Liverpool, AEK Athens, Grasshopper Zurich, FC Koln, Malmo - tough first round but not much after
Nottingham Forest 1980: Oster, Arges Pitesti, Dynamo Berlin, Ajax, Hamburg

Need I go on?

Under the same format, with half decent draws, it's reasonably likely that we would have got to a final or two and maybe even won it over the last 7 years.

But what we’ve ended up with are the same PL teams qualifying for the CL season after season, because they will finish in the top 4 in the PL every season. Which means they will get the additional revenues from the CL every season to carry on buying the best players and attracting them. That includes City. OK, United and Arsenal didn’t make it this season. Which is their fault of supporting FFP, and the lack of ambition and planning by their owners.

Outside the PL, the same teams play in the CL every season. The same matches happen every season. How often have City played the same teams in the CL? It get’s boring and predictable. At least with the old European Cup format City could play any team, as it was a straight draw and knockout competition.

The teams aside. It’s the rigging of the CL by UEFA and the ‘European Royalty’(what a Scouse croc of shite that title is) that has devalued the CL. Everything about the CL is rigged and fixed by UEFA to make sure the most powerful European clubs are in the competition every year, which guarantees UFEA the TV exposure and revenues it needs to survive, and which keeps European Royalty from forming their own European breakaway league, which would ultimately destroy UEFA.

Basically, the European club cartel keeps the UEFA cartel going.

 

[Sir peace frog]

It's like the FA Cup winners being called Champions of England.
Actually that's a bit unfair - you can't lose an FA Cup game and progress.

In reality it would be great to win it one day, just for completion and because it's the latest stick for the media.

3rd and 4th finishing qualifiers are in it, one hasn't won the league for 30 yrs, the other 57!
Both lost 4 times reaching the final. Spurs haven't had a sniff of a trophy in 11 years and rock up in the final. Hardly a reflection of elite.

if we win on Saturday it will be right to call fa cup winners champions of England :)

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am torn about it. I want City to win it to get the monkey of our back but most of all as just reward for Kun, Vinnie, Dave and Fern who all deserve it on their trophy list. When you look at our record in it this season, it doesn’t look bad on paper although we do ship goals easier than in the PL. it undoubtedly is won or lost on fine margins, the bounce of the ball, the rub of the green or dodgy ref/VAR decisions. I wish the relationship between club and UEFA was better so as fans we can just enjoy the competition. I would always rate the PL higher. But next season I would like for us to win the CL for the reasons I explained.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

It's a racket run by gangsters.

 

[jrb]

Again, tell me.

How can Arsenal who finished 6th last season, 5th this season, and if they beat Chelsea in the final of the Europa Final, end up in next season’s CL, and have a chance of winning it?

Imagine if City played Arsenal in next season’s CL final.

City, a team that has won the PL title, and possibly all the domestic cups, playing Arsenal, a team that have finished outside the top 4 in the PL for 2 season’s, but have won the Europa League, and Arsenal go on to beat City in the final. What a f***ing great advert that is for the CL.

And don’t forget, the Europa League never had a winner get’s a CL place. It was only introduced because nobody gave a shit about the Europa League. Certainly not in England. Basically it was on it’s arse, and UEFA had to do something to save it, hence the incentive to win it and to get a ‘free CL place’

 

[Blue Maverick]

If your not even best in your country how can you best in Europe, it’s just like any cup competition although heavily skewed for certain teams to keep winning it. Don’t care for anyway, if we win it eventually ye great like any other competition we are in, if not I won’t lose sleep over it.

 

[supercity88]

Again, tell me.

How can Arsenal who finished 6th last season, 5th this season, and if they beat Chelsea in the final of the Europa Final, end up in next season’s CL, and have a chance of winning it?

Imagine if City played Arsenal in next season’s CL final.

City, a team that has won the PL title, and possibly all the domestic cups, playing Arsenal, a team that have finished outside the top 4 in the PL for 2 season’s, but have won the Europa League, and Arsenal go on to beat City in the final. What a f***ing great advert that is for the CL.

And don’t forget, the Europa League never had a winner get’s a CL place. It was only introduced because nobody gave a shit about the Europa League. Certainly not in England. Basically it was on it’s arse, and UEFA had to do something to save it, hence the incentive to win it and to get a ‘free CL place’

It is all about money. The group stage means traditionally big teams play at least 6 games and huge revenue opportunities. In recent seasons though the winners and even finalists haven't won their league at the same time. That suggests it is more competitive and more difficult to win now. Last season we had a great chance to do it. This season, with the number of games and pressure on the squad we just missed out on getting to the semi final.

For me, the league comes first and then the FA Cup. The CL is third. But if we win the FA Cup on Saturday I will push the CL higher in my ranking. We would have achieved something no English team ever has. Domestic dominance would be secured. Then adding a European trophy would really cement our place as one of the greatest ever football teams. And that is regardless of how we do in the league next season.

Liverpool winning it this season is fine but over two games with them we were better hence why we won the league. They will not be true champions of Europe because they didn't win their domestic league. That might not mstter to fans but I think it is a much bigger accomplishment and trophy if it is won by a team that has also secured its league title.

 

[SpiritofBurnden]

I think you have it backwards, surely you can see in those days it was possible for a smaller team to pull off a shock and win the whole thing(get a good team together under a good manager and go the whole way). In this era, the closest we have had was Chelsea beating Bayern. Ajax getting to the semis was considered a shock this year, it just doesn't compare whatsoever to those days.

The days where it was an even playing field are long gone, probably even before it was reborn as the Champions League in the 90s, along with Premier League.

How was it easier to pull off a shock and win the competition back then?

For a start teams had to win their respective league. Then the 'smaller' teams had to beat the bigger teams to even reach the final. Bruges beat Juventus in the semi-final before facing Liverpool in the final in 1978. Hamburg beat Real Madrid in the semi-final before facing Forest in the final in 1980.

There were no second chances either, it was knockout football. Liverpool went out in the first round to Forest when they were reigning European champions. These days they would have been kept apart until the latter stages.