What return does the Skeikh expect?

[citygirl77]

Toy comes to mind.<br /><br />-- Wed May 12, 2010 5:11 pm --<br /><br />

You have to bear in mind that figure includes assets (read oil wells) which have not yet been and may never be developed and therefore is not really a fair reflection of the Al-Nahyan's wealth. Also, I would not trust IMF estimates (they are all politically motivated). Although it is notoriously difficult to estimate the wealth of any of the Gulf royal families (hardly as if the have to fill in tax returns) I believe that figure is a gross overestimation. In addition, a lot of money is needed to develop Abu Dhabi in accordance with their 2030 plan (no short term thinking for these people) which will result in a massive development drive for the Emirate. Remember although it is a modern Emirate, Abu Dhabi infrastructure pales in comparison to that of Dubai's plus they have much more land (93% of UAE land mass is Abu Dhabi) and sea to work with, which leads to medium term investment of around 1 trillion dollars (of course this will have to be financed, it is not someones pocket change)

I have the feeling that the numbers are rather correct, it´s not like there´s a difference between government assets and family assets, the oil fields value are used by taking the standard five year reserve/price range used by IMF.
It´s also a fact the Abu Dhabi oil is very cheap to pump, it´s not like say Tar sands.

About 8.9% (and shrinking albeit very slowly), curious to know where you got the 20% figure from?

Sorry, my mistake..I intented to write 10%, which includes fields they own outside Abu Dhabi in places like Indonesia, Iraq, Canada etc.

As I have said before (and I believe Khaldoon Al-Mubarak has mentioned), money will have to be made from the 'City Project'. While this is by no means an immediate priority it is not politically acceptable to spend hundreds of millions on a foreign football team without any return (especially one that finishes 5th). A few Champions League trophies will of course lessen the antipathy and will make it easier to sell to the Emirati population (during the UAE vs City match, they tried Our Country vs Our City, but a 1-0 loss hardly went down well there).

Politically acceptable by whom? It´s not like they worry about elections is it?
The Emir himself is ccurrently building a Palace in the Maldives just for his beloved fishing trips, all materials and the workforce are sent by air to this remote Island at a huge cost.
Nevertheless City is on paper a private project, by Sheikh Mansour himself..It´s just a coincidence that people working for other Bani Fatima brothers turn up perhaps, but I don´t think so.
So far City have cost just a fraction of Sheikh Mansours stables in France really.

That said I agree with Khaldoon that City will have to make money somewhere, nowt wrong with that. It´s just healthy for the club and might ease this "gimme" attitude some fans got now.

I know for a fact Maldives are a Republic and nobody can own an island, they can lease it for 10yrs and then improve it to get another 10yrs.
MCFC is a toy for these guys.

 

[S04]

I know for a fact Maldives are a Republic and nobody can own an island, they can lease it for 10yrs and then improve it to get another 10yrs.
MCFC is a toy for these guys.

It´s not an empty Island, there´s people living there. But a tiny poor republic will simply not antagonise the Emir of Abu Dhabi, you never know when you need a helping hand.

As for City being a toy, well..to the Al-Nahyans most things are really. But rest assured that they tend to take care of their toys well.

 

[salfordpaul]

great thread DD enjoyed it immensley!

The great thing for us, comes at a time when most premier clubs, apart from chelsea are very carefull about spending after having been warned in no uncertain terms after the pompey debacle that this must not happen again.

The clock is ticking on spending so we need to act now and spent some big money before we have to show profit as per platini. lets go for it this summer and break all records as yooonited and liverpool have done for years!

thankyou s. mansour

 

[hbruz80]

I have the feeling that the numbers are rather correct, it´s not like there´s a difference between government assets and family assets, the oil fields value are used by taking the standard five year reserve/price range used by IMF.
It´s also a fact the Abu Dhabi oil is very cheap to pump, it´s not like say Tar sands.

Of course there is a difference between government and family assets, it is just not clearly demarcated, which is one of the reasons why I said the IMF estimate is incorrect. For example, they cannot just use ADIA as an ATM machine, the money is invested for their people.

Politically acceptable by whom? It´s not like they worry about elections is it?

That shows a severe lack of understanding of UAE politics.

The Royal Family is accountable to their own people. You need to understand that countries like UAE and Qatar possess the most complete welfare systems imaginable. Huge expenses go to improving the lives of their people. Last year, in Abu Dhabi, all nationals working in the public sector (99% of nationals) were given 70% pay rises, this was during a recession!

The Emir himself is ccurrently building a Palace in the Maldives just for his beloved fishing trips, all materials and the workforce are sent by air to this remote Island at a huge cost.

So what, why cannot he have a holiday home paid for with his private funds? It is also good to note that when they build houses for themselves in underprivileged countries, they pay for the all the roads, schools and hospitals in the vicinity, creating jobs and livelihoods for large numbers of natives (Egypt, Pakistan and Morocco are just a few examples of places which have benefited from the Al-Nahyan’s charitable investments).

Nevertheless City is on paper a private project, by Sheikh Mansour himself..It´s just a coincidence that people working for other Bani Fatima brothers turn up perhaps, but I don´t think so.

I am quite tired so am not sure if that comment was supposed to be ironic? City was purchased with Sheikh Mansour’s private funds, however I am sure you are well aware that no big decision is taken in Abu Dhabi by just one person (indeed the decision to purchase a football club was discussed carefully by everyone). Of course his full brothers (Bani Fatima) are going to keep a watchful eye over proceedings not least the Crown Prince (City directly affects how Abu Dhabi is perceived in the UK, which is why Khaldoon Al-Mubarak is Chairman, he does have quite a lot on his plate as it is but his appointment reiterates how important City is to Abu Dhabi). In addition, owning a football team is actually quite fun so quite a few of his friends and family members are going to take a keen interest in what is going on at Eastlands.

So far City have cost just a fraction of Sheikh Mansours stables in France really.

What? You are saying his stables in Normandy cost billions? Whichever way you look at it, a large amount of money has been invested into City thus far; if it was petty change then Hughes would still be manager. They do not mind spending as long as they get the required results and results ARE expected! Abu Dhabi does not like to waste money unnecessarily, all outlays have to be justified, whether that be buying a stake in Citigroup, a Telecoms company in Pakistan or Fernando Torres!

I do not know if I have misunderstood what you have written but you seem to have the idea that the Al-Nayhan’s are like spoilt children, who just throw money about because they have nothing better to do (a stereotypical view portrayed in the media) when in reality this is completely untrue. Buying City is not akin to some Russian Billionaire buying TVR for his kid to play with, they are very careful (and usually discrete) about how they spend their money both for their own pleasure and for the good of their people. I am sorry I am tired and have to get some sleep now, got a busy few days coming up, but I hope I have been able to clarify a few points.

p.s. it is a bit harsh to call any of their projects toys, city may be a ‘pet project’ but it is not a toy

 

[rogdogblue]

The Sheik has bought a premier league club. He loves football and now he has a team and an identity in the best league in the world.
I would estimate our current worth to be £550m maybe more but
it's probably our potential which attracted him.
His return as you call it will be pleasure he gets from seeing City lift the Premier League Trophy and the Champions League in future years, and taking a club that hadn't won a trophy for yonks to the top.

Thank you rags for highlighting our plight with your stupid banner at the swamp.

Football is not a business proposition it is a pastime, enjoy.

 

[S04]

Of course there is a difference between government and family assets, it is just not clearly demarcated, which is one of the reasons why I said the IMF estimate is incorrect. For example, they cannot just use ADIA as an ATM machine, the money is invested for their people.

There´s a striking similarity between SWF's and old family trusts, especially when the family is the government.
Money flow back and forth between family members and the SWF's, many Al-Nahyans for example have their personal holdings in the SWF's.

That shows a severe lack of understanding of UAE politics.

The Royal Family is accountable to their own people. You need to understand that countries like UAE and Qatar possess the most complete welfare systems imaginable. Huge expenses go to improving the lives of their people. Last year, in Abu Dhabi, all nationals working in the public sector (99% of nationals) were given 70% pay rises, this was during a recession!

I beg to differ, the Al-Nahyans are only accountable to their own family and its agenda. Have you ever even heard a rumour that someone was trying to hold them accountable to anything?
The "political" system is more based on loyalties, to your family, clan and ultimately..ruler. The only thing even remotely familiar to say political parties are the two main fractions within the Al-Nahyan family.

That said the Al-Nahyans are surely among the most benevolent and modern of the rulers you might find in the middle east, bright and ambitious they are trying to create something very special in UAE.

So what, why cannot he have a holiday home paid for with his private funds? It is also good to note that when they build houses for themselves in underprivileged countries, they pay for the all the roads, schools and hospitals in the vicinity, creating jobs and livelihoods for large numbers of natives (Egypt, Pakistan and Morocco are just a few examples of places which have benefited from the Al-Nahyan’s charitable investments).

Yes, I know about their palaces and such worldwide and it´s true that in general the locals benefit from any association with the Al-Nahyans, as for if it´s being paid by his own private funds or not is rather impossible to find out as he himself have his private funds within the same system as the SWF's.

I am quite tired so am not sure if that comment was supposed to be ironic? City was purchased with Sheikh Mansour’s private funds, however I am sure you are well aware that no big decision is taken in Abu Dhabi by just one person (indeed the decision to purchase a football club was discussed carefully by everyone). Of course his full brothers (Bani Fatima) are going to keep a watchful eye over proceedings not least the Crown Prince (City directly affects how Abu Dhabi is perceived in the UK, which is why Khaldoon Al-Mubarak is Chairman, he does have quite a lot on his plate as it is but his appointment reiterates how important City is to Abu Dhabi). In addition, owning a football team is actually quite fun so quite a few of his friends and family members are going to take a keen interest in what is going on at Eastlands.

I agree 100%..

What? You are saying his stables in Normandy cost billions? Whichever way you look at it, a large amount of money has been invested into City thus far; if it was petty change then Hughes would still be manager. They do not mind spending as long as they get the required results and results ARE expected! Abu Dhabi does not like to waste money unnecessarily, all outlays have to be justified, whether that be buying a stake in Citigroup, a Telecoms company in Pakistan or Fernando Torres!

His stables have been in existence longer than his involvement in City, hence more total expenses..As for wasting money or not I think we might consider the rather huge sums they distribute to charities, sometimes they do it for humanitarian reasons but we should not be blind to the fact that they seem to favour charities who are well connected politically.

I do not know if I have misunderstood what you have written but you seem to have the idea that the Al-Nayhan’s are like spoilt children, who just throw money about because they have nothing better to do (a stereotypical view portrayed in the media) when in reality this is completely untrue. Buying City is not akin to some Russian Billionaire buying TVR for his kid to play with, they are very careful (and usually discrete) about how they spend their money both for their own pleasure and for the good of their people. I am sorry I am tired and have to get some sleep now, got a busy few days coming up, but I hope I have been able to clarify a few points.

p.s. it is a bit harsh to call any of their projects toys, city may be a ‘pet project’ but it is not a toy

Au contraire..I have often tried to explain how work-oriented the Al-Nahyans are, at least the Bani Fatima brothers. The crown prince himself have turned down several offers for his daughters because he felt that the proposed groom was to uneducated and lazy, if you are in the area you might guess who I´m referring to..;)


Finally I´d like to say that it´s a pleasure to discuss things with people that know what they are talking about..I feel that we might differ in opinion at times but where´s the fun without that.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

This is the level of contribution I was hoping for on this thread. Thanks everyone and particularly hbruz and S04

 

[fbloke]

This is the level of contribution I was hoping for on this thread. Thanks everyone and particularly hbruz and S04

For once a pair if posters who I can say I enjoyed reading a debate from (apart from you and me DD)

You have hopefully seen what I and others have posted about the almost racist attitude the press have in their stereotypical reporting of City, its ownership and the use of available funds and how at least some of us don't see it like that.

Thanks for posting fellas and keep it coming.