What would you do to help the pub industry?

bladdered said:
I'm sure the pub snob group will hate this but simply follow the Wetherspoons model.

Provide reasonable prices for beer and grub and the punters will come.

My local charges £1.99 for Abbot Ale - £1.79 Mon-Wed. Cheaper than Tesco!

It's always got a good crowd in whilst the craft beer pubs around here charging a fiver a pint are dead.

It's not rocket science.
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It's not rocket science but it isn't an easy model to simply copy.

The majority of their pubs are freeholds, so they own the land the pub is on. Because they own not far short of 1,000 pubs, that pretty much all sell exactly the same beers, they buy in huge bulk, at a price not available to anybody else. They also sign very long term contracts with their suppliers, meaning even more saving. I think the other main thing in their favour is that they are very selective about where they open pubs. Whereas a lot of their competitors inherited a large network of pubs, many of which will have being struggling for years.

It's a great business model and I'm a big fan. But unless you've got the money to go out and buy 800 pubs, all in high demand areas, it's not really something you can replicate.

It would be a bit like buying a burger shop and planning on copying McDonald's business model.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
They are very health conscious. The lads at our work, early 20’s, don’t drink anything like what I did at their age. I was in the pub Thursday/Friday/Saturday/Sunday and often had a couple at lunchtime in the week when I worked in London.

Tik Tok generation.
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I don't think it's just the youngsters. When I started work in the 80s, the pub next door would be rammed by lunchtime with all the early shift. Then the middle shift would all be in by tea time and the late shift would come running over for last orders. I'd say probably about 90% of the lads, young and old, would go for a least a couple of pints every single day.

There's obviously still a few pissheads left, amongst the older ones admittedly. but they go straight home to their local after work. Apart from a leaving do and maybe a Christmas piss up, I honestly can't remember the last time I even overheard anyone asking if anyone else is coming for a pint after work.

Whereas I bet the number who go to the gym regularly is well over 50%. And that's young and old. Not just the Tik Tockers. Apart from the odd boxing or weight lifting ones, I don't think gyms even existed in the 80s.
 
Gareth Barry Conlon said:
The current generation don't drink. My son doesn't mind a beer at home. But none of his mates seem to have any interest in going out. 30 years ago when I was in my late teens everyone was out in pubs and clubs. If you didn't go you would have fomo. Staying in would be weird.

As a result everyone I knew had a job at 17. All working shit jobs to pay for Friday and Saturday night. Kids these days are not that arsed about getting a job cos they don't spend money like we did. They don't need the clothes.

It's weird but possibly more healthy I don't know.
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The young ones are different nowadays.
As you say they don't tend to go out much and when you do see the 18 year olds in the pub, they all look like scruffs. I wouldn't walk to the shop in what they wear for a Saturday night out.
I wouldn't want to go back to needing to wear a shirt and trousers as you did 20 years ago in town but at least put some jeans and a polo shirt on.
 
You can point to individual reasons. Prices, smoking ban, supermarkets practically giving it away, everyone's skint. All valid reasons. But the fact is that the total number of pubs in the country has been on a steady decline for at least 50 years. Probably more. And most of the reasons above weren't really a factor for the majority of those years.

Bottom line is that people's habits change over time, due to a whole wide range of issues.

There will always be a demand for pubs in city centres and larger town centres. You go to town on a Saturday afternoon, and your problem can be finding a pub that you can get served in a reasonable time and find a seat, rather than a lack of them. With plenty of people of all ages.

Go to a 'traditional' out of town pub and the average age is gradually getting higher and higher. There's more people in there at 11 am than 11 pm. Those type of pubs will continue to close as the regulars die off and aren't replaced.

I predict in a couple of decades time, if not sooner, pubs will be a bit like restaurants. You still won't be able to walk a few yards in town without stumbling across one. And more affluent areas like Didsbury and Chorlton will still have a good selection. But they'll be virtually non existent in what you might call 'working class' areas. Look at Moss Side and Hulme. They're almost there already. And Wythenshawe isn't far behind.
 
I live near a town with thriving bars, packed to the rafters with people of all ages enjoying a night out.

The traditional pubs in the same town are much quieter, and nothing like as busy as they used to be years ago.

Changing tastes, I suppose.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
Tell them all that their profit margin on spirits is outrageous, which is why they dont sell many spirits. A double Tanqueray and tonic was a ten spot in Bury last week. Litre Bottle of Tanq retails at £22 at 20 doubles @£1.10 and they wonder why they're struggling. Piss take ...take a buttie dont take a banquet!
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But once u take into account VAT, Staff wages, business rates, heat&light, insurance, cleaning, etc etc there isn’t much profit left.
 
geoff hammond said:
But once u take into account VAT, Staff wages, business rates, heat&light, insurance, cleaning, etc etc there isn’t much profit left.
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Running a small business is tough, people always complain about prices, c’est la vie. I often wonder about how many small businesses exist where I live, there aren’t many large employers, I bet 90% of businesses are self ran, I think it’s a wonderful thing
 
Stephen230 said:
Classic example of that was The Grants ( A' Fe' We ) in Hulme

For the best part of a century it was surrounded by open land and served the local community. Then they built houses all around it and those who bought the houses were shocked to learn that the pub and long standing music venue next door, generated a bit of noise, and got it shut down.
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Was "The Grants" a Boddies pub, not far from the Mancunian Way ?
A proper local's pub with character.
Lived the other end of Hulme, my local was The Gamecock, which was a shite estate-type pub with no atmosphere.
Loved Boddingtons, the best beer in Manchester when started drinking in the late '70s...
 
stonerblue said:
Turn the shit music down
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Fucking hell, this. The worst thing that happened to pubs was those jukeboxes that connect to the internet and allow people to play whatever they want. Now instead of a curated list of appropriate music, you've got one dickhead with a pound making the entire pub listen to his obscure happy hardcore bollocks at 2pm on a Sunday.
 
bladdered said:
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Haha that is so true. I remember walking through the northern quarter the first time we were allowed out after covid and it was packed but seeing these two lads who were obviously mates, seeing them on their phones well pissed me off to the point where I wanted to go over and bang their heads together and smash feck out of their phones. They’d prob not seen one another for months on end and there they were fucking about on their phones.
 
Stephen230 said:
I don't think it's just the youngsters. When I started work in the 80s, the pub next door would be rammed by lunchtime with all the early shift. Then the middle shift would all be in by tea time and the late shift would come running over for last orders. I'd say probably about 90% of the lads, young and old, would go for a least a couple of pints every single day.

There's obviously still a few pissheads left, amongst the older ones admittedly. but they go straight home to their local after work. Apart from a leaving do and maybe a Christmas piss up, I honestly can't remember the last time I even overheard anyone asking if anyone else is coming for a pint after work.

Whereas I bet the number who go to the gym regularly is well over 50%. And that's young and old. Not just the Tik Tockers. Apart from the odd boxing or weight lifting ones, I don't think gyms even existed in the 80s.
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No way are 50% of people going to the gym. I reckon I know 2 people who regularly go. Plenty of people might do a sport, but that's always been the case.

Just ChatGPTed it, and it claims 17% of UK adults are gym members. Famously plenty of people are members and never go though.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Fucking hell, this. The worst thing that happened to pubs was those jukeboxes that connect to the internet and allow people to play whatever they want. Now instead of a curated list of appropriate music, you've got one dickhead with a pound making the entire pub listen to his obscure happy hardcore bollocks at 2pm on a Sunday.
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Despite being fond of pubs and keen to visit new ones, I don't think I ever found one of those internet juke boxes in any pub or bar - maybe Cord had one years ago but it seemed to be controlled by the staff?

I still harbour a plan to treat everyone in the room to Metal Machine Music if I ever find one.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Fucking hell, this. The worst thing that happened to pubs was those jukeboxes that connect to the internet and allow people to play whatever they want. Now instead of a curated list of appropriate music, you've got one dickhead with a pound making the entire pub listen to his obscure happy hardcore bollocks at 2pm on a Sunday.
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Yep.
This bugs me a lot. Music can set the atmosphere of a place and if i ran a boozer the sound system would be behind the bar.
 
Stephen230 said:
You can point to individual reasons. Prices, smoking ban, supermarkets practically giving it away, everyone's skint. All valid reasons. But the fact is that the total number of pubs in the country has been on a steady decline for at least 50 years. Probably more. And most of the reasons above weren't really a factor for the majority of those years.

Bottom line is that people's habits change over time, due to a whole wide range of issues.

There will always be a demand for pubs in city centres and larger town centres. You go to town on a Saturday afternoon, and your problem can be finding a pub that you can get served in a reasonable time and find a seat, rather than a lack of them. With plenty of people of all ages.

Go to a 'traditional' out of town pub and the average age is gradually getting higher and higher. There's more people in there at 11 am than 11 pm. Those type of pubs will continue to close as the regulars die off and aren't replaced.

I predict in a couple of decades time, if not sooner, pubs will be a bit like restaurants. You still won't be able to walk a few yards in town without stumbling across one. And more affluent areas like Didsbury and Chorlton will still have a good selection. But they'll be virtually non existent in what you might call 'working class' areas. Look at Moss Side and Hulme. They're almost there already. And Wythenshawe isn't far behind.
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I think this is a very well observed post. Pubs in more affluent areas (and I mean pubs, not gastro pubs) are generally doing very well, but those in less affluent areas continue to struggle. The price differential with the supermarkets being far more an issue in the latter than the former.

There are plenty of pubs making big money, but they are definitely diminishing in number. The sector has been in decline since the Beer Orders of 1989. It doesn’t mean there isn’t money to be made, it’s just not as widespread or straightforward as it used to be. Operators have to be far more creative with their offering, with purposeful and well directed social media output becoming increasingly important.

The overheads in running a pub are way higher in percentage terms relative to the turnover than 30 years ago, especially given the almost universal requirement to do decent food as part of the offer these days. Wages in a wet only pub are about 10% of turnover; a pub that does about 20%-30% of its turnover in food around 25%; and a gastro pub where food is over 50% of turnover over 30%, sometimes approaching 40%. Doesn’t take much of a drop in turnover in the latter to fuck the cash flow up really quickly.

I’ve certainly been hearing predictions of impending doom for the pub sector for over three decades now and none of that has come to fruition. I think the sector will be fine for the next generation at least, but it will continue to decline overall, especially in less affluent areas is my best guess.
 
It is largely changing demographics in a lot of places were peopke who live close to the town centres are in cheaper properties which are easier to but without a mortgage and the ones that don't drink.

Hence Bradford city centre and Blackurn town centre have very few pubs, masively changed in 20 years.

Any generation sees a big drop in Pubs, the same happened to cinemas when even a small town would have several picture halls, then people got tellies. When puns were the only thing to do there would be 100 in a small town, then it would be aorund 25 in 1990 then 10 in 2025. People have other options and running a pub is a mugs game, with the "self employed pub manager" model often lucky to get minimum wage.

The Millenium saw people staying at home as pubs clubs wanted too much money, and from then people went out less and smaller towns every week abandoned for bigger cities once a month. Then the smoking ban circa 2007, had a large visible impact. Then the one recent event that did mean people drank at home and lost social drinking contatcs was COVID.

Some places have seen a lot of new pubs shoot up like Halifax which despite being very close to, seems the opposite of Bradford in the last 10 years. It may be cyclical as Ramsbottom got very popular for while and is now in decline again.
 
Make it so that any alcohol that is sold in the supermarket has to be consumed in the supermarket.
 
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