What's the difference?

[WestGorton]

The issue is no Kompany and Laporte. Midfield is fine. Gundo played the last 10 games or so last season when Fern was injured.

 

[TP2000]

Try not to make sweeping generalisations about how an entire nation of people think.

There’s 65million British people and there’s a healthy mix of opinion on all sorts things.

If you don’t think City’s energy levels in the middle of the pitch have gone down since last season, that’s entirely up to you.

But don’t scapegoat an entire nation because of your own ignorance.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious that there are vast differences in the way nations perceive and teach football. This then filters down to how fans judge certain types of players.

The English system doesn’t have a good concept for controlling midfielders. We tend not to produce these players, and when we do, we don’t know what to do with them. We stuck the last great controlling midfielder we produced on the left wing of a 4-4-2 formation, I’m speaking about Paul Scholes.

Things have actually gotten a lot better in this regard over the last five years, and England now understands the importance of this player at youth level.

However, there is still a large section of fans brought up with kick and rush Sunday league style football that struggle to understand the importance of these players. What I’m shocked about is that the last two years of success hasn’t altered their opinion on the game. Make no mistake, I can guarantee you
a majority of these fans were calling for Guadiola’s head at the end of his first season. Being wrong over and over again about players doesn’t seem to have made a dent in their belief that they are right.

FYI, I am English. When I interact with other Europeans, especially the Spanish, they tend to hold these types of players in much higher regard.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I mean, it’s pretty obvious that there are vast differences in the way nations perceive and teach football. This then filters down to how fans judge certain types of players.

The English system doesn’t have a good concept for controlling midfielders. We tend not to produce these players, and when we do, we don’t know what to do with them. We stuck the last great controlling midfielder we produced on the left wing of a 4-4-2 formation, I’m speaking about Paul Scholes.

Things have actually gotten a lot better in this regard over the last five years, and England now understands the importance of this player at youth level.

However, there is still a large section of fans brought up with kick and rush Sunday league style football that struggle to understand the importance of these players. What I’m shocked about is that the last two years of success hasn’t altered their opinion on the game. Make no mistake, I can guarantee you
a majority of these fans were calling for Guadiola’s head at the end of his first season. Being wrong over and over again about players doesn’t seem to have made a dent in their belief that they are right.

FYI, I am English. When I interact with other Europeans, especially the Spanish, they tend to hold these types of players in much higher regard.

It’s great that you value controlling midfielders. But don’t assume that because I’m British that I don’t. And certainly don’t assume that by saying we miss Fernandinho in midfield it means that I don’t.

I rate Rodri. I’m very encouraged by what I’ve seen from him. He’s the closest I’ve seen to Busquets. He can dictate the tempo from deep. He is good with the ball under pressure. He can play a lovely switch.

Similarly, Gundogan when playing as the lone 6 is excellent on the ball. He has the confidence to take it from the back 4 and looks for forward passes and is intelligent with his passing.

But as an 8, in the last 2 and a half years, Gundogan is not fit for purpose. He doesn’t press enough without the ball. He’s next to useless at finding space and showing feet when he’s in front of the ball. He’s poor on the half turn. His speed of thought and choice of pass in the final third is several rungs below our other options.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction, I’ve been saying the same things about him for over two years and it’s well documented on here. The performances and results when he plays in that position consistently back me up.

If you don’t think pace and energy are important in central midfielders in the PL, I’d suggest you’ve probably not been paying attention. Liverpool are on course for the highest points total in history. Their midfield is pretty much pace and energy only. Pressing.

Our last two seasons where we’ve broken every record and won pretty much everything domestically, our midfield has consistently been the best (or second best) in the league at pressing.

It puts teams under pressure, makes counter-attacking against us harder because they have less time to pick the best long pass when under intense pressure.

Our problem this season has not been what we do with the ball when we have it, that has been fine. Our problem has been that our opponents have been more effective at counter attacking us with the little amount of ball they have.

Yes, defending 1v1 has been a problem for us. But cutting the danger out at source has been an even bigger one.

We didn’t give teams room to breathe in previous seasons, we were like animals pressing to win it back in previous seasons. This season with the pedestrian Gundogan and Rodri, our opponents are not under anywhere near the same pressure.

It’s not very sexy or European, but the fact remains at any level of football if you play a high line and don’t put pressure on the ball, you are vulnerable to counter-attacks. And playing Rodri and Gundogan in the same midfield pretty much guarantees it.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I mean, it’s pretty obvious that there are vast differences in the way nations perceive and teach football. This then filters down to how fans judge certain types of players.

The English system doesn’t have a good concept for controlling midfielders. We tend not to produce these players, and when we do, we don’t know what to do with them. We stuck the last great controlling midfielder we produced on the left wing of a 4-4-2 formation, I’m speaking about Paul Scholes.

Things have actually gotten a lot better in this regard over the last five years, and England now understands the importance of this player at youth level.

However, there is still a large section of fans brought up with kick and rush Sunday league style football that struggle to understand the importance of these players. What I’m shocked about is that the last two years of success hasn’t altered their opinion on the game. Make no mistake, I can guarantee you
a majority of these fans were calling for Guadiola’s head at the end of his first season. Being wrong over and over again about players doesn’t seem to have made a dent in their belief that they are right.

FYI, I am English. When I interact with other Europeans, especially the Spanish, they tend to hold these types of players in much higher regard.

Pep’s just said in his press conference that we weren’t aggressive enough and didn’t press enough against United...

 

[sir baconface]

However, there is still a large section of fans brought up with kick and rush Sunday league style football that struggle to understand the importance of these players. What I’m shocked about is that the last two years of success hasn’t altered their opinion on the game. Make no mistake, I can guarantee you
a majority of these fans were calling for Guadiola’s head at the end of his first season. Being wrong over and over again about players doesn’t seem to have made a dent in their belief that they are right.

Ironically, kick and rush is a tactic that works effectively against us :)

 

[Craig]

The issue is no Kompany and Laporte. Midfield is fine. Gundo played the last 10 games or so last season when Fern was injured.

True but he's good in the holding role. As it stands now you've got him playing instead of David Silva, huge drop off in quality going forwards.

 

[Bluesince1979]

Our midfield on sunday was foden-gumdogan-rodri

Compare that with silva-fern-Kdb?

Not replacing Kompany was negligent.
Persisting with rodri instead of fern.
Loss of form for too many players.

All the above but my personal opinion is Pep cant get the players following instructions like last 2 seasons, which means either new players who will or a new manager

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Imo it doesn't take tactics or particular players or even style of play (to a degree) to win a season.

It's squad mentality and spirit, that's the thing we got wrong. Last year we had the win at all costs and the confidence to go with it mentality. This year we lost kompany, then we lost Laporte and then sane, Livarpool started happening, then we started doubting ourselves, passing became laboured, mistakes have risen, form has dropped off a cliff for players like sterling and Bernardo, the belief that we can beat games like Norwich has disappeared, it feels like every game is a minefield!

Fortunately Pep's brilliant at instilling a winning mentality in teams, he just needs to have a season without the distractions and bad luck of this season.