Who should be the next leader of the Tory party?

[Gabriel]

Do people in Scotland really vote for the SNP to get centre left policies or are they just expressing their nationalist and ideological aim which is to leave the UK?

I hear the SNP are very poorly thought of in Scotland however they're the only party left that support independence. It's no different at all to the Tories who won in 2015 to deliver a referendum and they've won constantly since to deliver the result of it. The Tories will lose when Brexit is no longer an issue and until then they'll win or do well purely because of the lack of energy from other parties.

It's virtually certain that Scottish independence would be terrible for Scotland. Many credible sources show that Scottish independence would be 2/3x worse for Scotland than Brexit.

Clearly if we're talking of the influence on voting stupidity alone then there's a great argument that the anti-English Scottish press is just as powerful as the supposed right-wing press and media in England..... It makes zero sense to leave the UK just as much as it made no real sense for the UK to leave the EU. All reasoning around that is ideological and found in prejudices and other things.

The Conservatives were winning before Brexit and with their current majority there is every chance that they will win again at the next election.

The Scots vote SNP in large numbers in local and national elections as well, so it’s more than simple national ideology, and there is a strong case to be made that Scottish voters are currently more centre-left than their English counterparts. Should also point out that the SNP is not the only party that supports independence:The Alba Party argues for independence, too, and currently has two MPs in Westminster, the noisy ones.

Which specific publications in the Scottish press do you consider to be anti-English?

Whether Independence is as damaging as Brexit remains to be seen, though it should be their choice to decide. I would imagine it would be extremely painful in the short term but reap dividends more quickly than Brexit will for the rUK, though that will depend on how quickly it joins the EU.

 

[Shaelumstash]

That‘s true about Manchester but your last point is reductionist and just the same as viewing England as one homogenous block. Everything is more nuanced.

As I pointed out here, Labour would have won in the past even without Scottish MPs. It now needs to forget about Scotland and seek to win in England and Wales either on its own or with the help of the Liberal Democrats. It will probably not, however, win outright on its own with a commanding majority. To win in England, it thus needs to work on attracting voters in the likes of Bury North, Bury South, Bolton North East, Cheadle BC etc., yet the Labour message that will win in those constituencies just won’t work in Scotland. Indeed, the posters on here give us a good indication how people in England and Scotland have drifted further apart.

I would imagine Labour and the Liberal Democrats, heck even the Conservatives, would privately recognise that Scotland is now an electoral lost cause and will target their finite resources on winning those key seats south of the border. The trick for Labour is moving just far enough to the right to capture those sorts of seats, and Truss arguably gives them the better chance of doing that.

I don't think it's reductionist at all, I genuinely believe it to be true.

The Tories aren't going to give Scotland another referendum no matter what.

If Scotland returns another 50 SNP MPs next time out, we're far more likely to have another Tory government next time out, so it's a self-harming exercise.

Even if Starmer might not reflect your exact views, ask yourself if Scotland would be better off with him as PM, or Liz Truss.

That's the choice at the next election. We can all say I'd like this, I'd like that, but the stark choice at the next election is Starmer or Truss as PM.

Voting SNP is not going to put Sturgeon as PM. It's not going to get you another referendum. It's not going to get you a coalition. It's just going to increase the chance of Truss being PM.

 

[kaz7]

Couldnt stomach watching them last night , besides love island is still on , anything new other than truss is a woman that will flog us disabled again ?

 

[johnnytapia]

Suits me fine - they are scraping rotten apples off the bottom of a barrel and Sunak is the slightly least off and whiffy of the two which is why Truss will win and which is why it will suit me. Over 12 years the Tories have ruined this country and the shit storm that is about to envelop us this coming winter is coming anyway so its in everyone's interest that someone who in reality wouldn't be employed as a teaching assistant get the top job and hastens the end of Tory rule and the decimation of the Tory party as it splits into factional groups broadly anti-EU vs Pro-EU vs those who hate Forriners and get so caught up in their posturing they totally ignore peoples inability to get adequate food to meet their needs. heat their homes and travel to work never mind go on holiday.

The vast majority of Teaching Assistants are highly-skilled, dedicated professionals who do a great job in very demanding circumstances: low pay and often tasked with working with some of the most complicated/ vulnerable pupils.
Your comment does them a disservice.

 

[Magicpole]

Do people in Scotland really vote for the SNP to get centre left policies or are they just expressing their nationalist and ideological aim which is to leave the UK?

I hear the SNP are very poorly thought of in Scotland however they're the only party left that support independence. It's no different at all to the Tories who won in 2015 to deliver a referendum and they've won constantly since to deliver the result of it. The Tories will lose when Brexit is no longer an issue and until then they'll win or do well purely because of the lack of energy from other parties.

It's virtually certain that Scottish independence would be terrible for Scotland. Many credible sources show that Scottish independence would be 2/3x worse for Scotland than Brexit.

Clearly if we're talking of the influence on voting stupidity alone then there's a great argument that the anti-English Scottish press is just as powerful as the supposed right-wing press and media in England..... It makes zero sense to leave the UK just as much as it made no real sense for the UK to leave the EU. All reasoning around that is ideological and found in prejudices and other things.

It’s about left of centre politics. Being as fair as we can. What anti English press? All the papers are unionist, another line you are sipping up that’s pish. We are a rich country, I will tell you who will he fucked yo, England, Wakes and NI. We are a rich country unable to control our economy and invest in stuff. We have been fucked for years because you lit keep voting in Tories. No country that has sought for du fir the UK apart from Undia had more. Resources. And that includes Ireland too. Wake up and stop being led by the nose. We will be fine it will be hard the first five years, but it’s harder now.

 

[Magicpole]

It’s alright you slagging us all off but the choices are limited until another party comes forward to break the chain.

I’ll stay away from harping on about the problems in Scotland, absolutely nothing to be gained from it when we are all going through so much.

It’s times like these that make us need to make a stand. We can sort our problems if we have the power to. We don’t. You believed and bought the Corbyn terrible smear. You got taken fir mugs and acted like fucking mugs. We will be fine, we are big enough, clever enough and will make it work. Don’t ever doubt that or believe right wing cunts who know letting us go spells disaster for those we leave behind. We left because you lit bend over a desk as a nation. Deal with that.

 

[johnnytapia]

I've been watching the leadership debates and I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the words coming out of their mouths with the reality regarding the state of the country. The tories have been in power for over 12 years now, everything is a shattered remnant of how it used to be, and they seem to inhabit some sort of fantasy world with their self promoting 'I have delivered' bullshit.

I'd like to see Claude Litner from The Apprentice have them write their CV's, then see him tear them to shreds with their claims.

Claude. 'Liz, you change your mind to suit your ambitions, don't you, and you didn't have a hard time at school. They gave you special lessons and you pretended otherwise. So, what are your core beliefs?'

Claude. 'Rishi, you authorised billions of pounds under your watch to dubious companies during the pandemic, and you can't be bothered asking for it back. That's not financial responsibilty, is it?'

In my 65 years, I've never known the country to be in such a bad state, and listening to those two leaves me dumbfounded. We really are screwed if they consider themselves fit to run the country.

Claude is the absolute king of evisceration. He’d have a fucking field day with this lot

 

[Vic]

What we me is proportional representation which will end the US/UK style 2 ruling party style politics. Personally I would love to a more left of centre style politics but that's not going to happen under the current climate. We need to to start getting more people engaged especially young people who should be deciding this country not some old farts in the shires. Lower the voting age to 16 and digitise the process and abolish all this tory crap to disincentivize voting.

Sadly, you don't need Tory voter suppression to disincentivise young people from voting. I'm not sure how you get young people (or poor people) to turn out in the same numbers as old and well-off people.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

It’s times like these that make us need to make a stand. We can sort our problems if we have the power to. We don’t. You believed and bought the Corbyn terrible smear. You got taken fir mugs and acted like fucking mugs. We will be fine, we are big enough, clever enough and will make it work. Don’t ever doubt that or believe right wing cunts who know letting us go spells disaster for those we leave behind. We left because you lit bend over a desk as a nation. Deal with that.

I bought the smear? Nothing of the sort. I didn’t put these pricks in power and we’re all in the same boat.

We may as well blame the Scot’s for allowing them to keep power, your votes could‘ve counted but you chose to be stupid and vote for yourself.

Easy all this mud slinging.

 

[BeerIsTheBest]

I've been watching the leadership debates and I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the words coming out of their mouths with the reality regarding the state of the country. The tories have been in power for over 12 years now, everything is a shattered remnant of how it used to be, and they seem to inhabit some sort of fantasy world with their self promoting 'I have delivered' bullshit.

I'd like to see Claude Litner from The Apprentice have them write their CV's, then see him tear them to shreds with their claims.

Claude. 'Liz, you change your mind to suit your ambitions, don't you, and you didn't have a hard time at school. They gave you special lessons and you pretended otherwise. So, what are your core beliefs?'

Claude. 'Rishi, you authorised billions of pounds under your watch to dubious companies during the pandemic, and you can't be bothered asking for it back. That's not financial responsibilty, is it?'

In my 65 years, I've never known the country to be in such a bad state, and listening to those two leaves me dumbfounded. We really are screwed if they consider themselves fit to run the country.

NPBlue
good words and I’m in the same state of dumbfounded amazement. No Tory will admit they have slowly screwed the country and our childrens future, there is no forum where individually or collectively the party or individuals can be properly held to account and there are far too many gammons about who still think they, and the fat fool have done a good job.
Before the last few weeks news on the utility price hikes I reasoned that we were in for a winter of civil unrest and disobedience. I think this even more now. When the summer ends and the reality bites many of the gammons who voted for the Tories, fatso and Brexit will be on the streets complaining how unfair it all is. Ito utterly utterly frightening and it’s it really difficult to find people to have a sensible conversation With.
The country is in denial,a trance if you like transfixed by utter shite like Waggate, Love Island and heatwave news Etc.
I’ve posted this before but I really wish I had buggered off abroad to live a few years ago like my mate who now lives in blissful isolation in rural Spain.