Why do we bother?

hilts said:
I think he/she lives in never never land where compassion solves all ills and fuckers suddenly see the light with a head pat
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I don't know, seems a decent enough poster, but people's opinions are formed by their experiences.
They may have had good experiences of society.

I haven't, so my opinion is different.

IMO it's the people who make society, not the laws ...etc.
unfortunately the words I'd use to describe our people would no doubt get me many enemies on here, so I won't bother :)

but I actually agree with him about the death penalty, an eye for an eye is a bit outdated and is simply revenge/retribution rather than a just punishment, all IMO.

I generally think that EVERYBODY deserves a second chance, unfortunately this lad in the article appears to have wasted his second chance, where we take him from here is anyone's guess. But I just can't onboard with one killing being ok but another isn't. Just me.

I was just laughing at "decent, humane country" because the majority (by no means all) of the people I meet on a daily basis are absolute cvnts. :) :) :)
 
the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
I generally think that EVERYBODY deserves a second chance, unfortunately this lad in the article appears to have wasted his second chance, where we take him from here is anyone's guess. But I just can't onboard with one killing being ok but another isn't. Just me.
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I agree with much of your post, and despite what I've posted in here I'm by no means certain that the death penalty should be introduced for anything other than the most heinous of crimes.

But in this instance, this twat targeted kids in an attack that was designed to deliver the maximum emotional distress possible to ordinary families, and all in the name of a fairy tale.

There are no mitigating circumstances for this, it wasn't a crime of passion, it was cold blooded indiscriminate slaughter.

His actions this week demonstrate there is no remorse for what he has done, no regret that suggests he deserves a second chance, and absolutely zero chance he will ever be allowed his freedom.

In this instance I am absolutely convinced he should be executed.
 
the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
Don't know if you meant this to be funny :)

The systems we have here may be decent and humane in comparison to other less well off countries, but the majority of the population most certainly aren't.

IMO
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Pardon ! The majority of the country are not decent nor humane. !!!!
And you asked the other poster if he was joking
 
flook said:
I agree with much of your post, and despite what I've posted in here I'm by no means certain that the death penalty should be introduced for anything other than the most heinous of crimes.

But in this instance, this twat targeted kids in an attack that was designed to deliver the maximum emotional distress possible to ordinary families, and all in the name of a fairy tale.

There are no mitigating circumstances for this, it wasn't a crime of passion, it was cold blooded indiscriminate slaughter.

His actions this week demonstrate there is no remorse for what he has done, no regret that suggests he deserves a second chance, and absolutely zero chance he will ever be allowed his freedom.

In this instance I am absolutely convinced he should be executed.
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Mate, what I meant by second chance was what he did whilst serving his time in prison.

I don't really have a real grasp of prison life, possibly naive of me to think he could've got his head down and reformed, experienced the feelings of remorse and regret and realised the human cost of his actions, maybe even devoted his life inside to helping others to realise the costs and futility of their own actions; that's all I meant by "second chance".

But he's not done that.

Solitary forever is the best I can come up with from my perspective, but then human rights get involved.

Funny how an OAP can be left to rot in a bedsit, never leaving their home and going mad with the solitude of their life; yet it's inhumane to do the same to this fella after what he's done (twice) because he might go a bit mad(der)

Everything's so fucked up man :)
 
Blue Mist said:
Pardon ! The majority of the country are not decent nor humane. !!!!
And you asked the other poster if he was joking
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Last Thursday I walked down Deansgate.
There was a woman (possibly Romanian by the language she was using) completely losing her shit.
I could hear her screaming from Great Northern Square and as I walked up she didn't stop.
I eventually got to just outside that Moon under the Water bar thing that's pretty much at the end of Market Street.
She was screaming and crying and must've been doing it for at least 5 mins by then.
You know what EVERYBODY was doing?

EVERYBODY!

Videoing it on their fucking phones.

Laughing.

Pointing.

It was fucking packed.

Not a single person offered anything in the five minutes I took to walk past staring at them all, thinking, "brilliant, 5'6" me has got to be the single, solitary person "brave" enough to get involved and somehow console this poor tragic person, yet-a-fucking-gain."

I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of these stories mate.

Do you want to hear the one about the very feeble old man who needed help to get down 5 steps at a train station but EVERYONE just walked past him? In a rush weren't they, beers to drink on a Saturday, way more important than helping an old man who'd probably not even spoken to a single human all day. Priorities and that.

etc...
etc...
etc.

The vast majority of people, IMO, are generally twats who don't have even an ounce of decency or what I would describe as humanity in them. You meet one or two with a working moral compass, but not very often.

So yeah, I stand by my point.

Not angry, just disappointed :)
 
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the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
Last Thursday I walked down Deansgate.
There was a woman (possibly Romanian by the language she was using) completely losing her shit.
I could hear her screaming from Great Northern Square and as I walked up she didn't stop.
I eventually got to just outside that Moon under the Water bar thing that's pretty much at the end of Market Street.
She was screaming and crying and must've been doing it for at least 5 mins by then.
You know what EVERYBODY was doing?

EVERYBODY!

Videoing it on their fucking phones.

Laughing.

Pointing.

It was fucking packed.

Not a single person offered anything in the five minutes I took to walk past staring at them all, thinking, "brilliant, 5'6" me has got to be the single, solitary person "brave" enough to get involved and somehow console this poor tragic person, yet-a-fucking-gain."

I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of these stories mate.

Do you want to hear the one about the very feeble old man who needed help to get down 5 steps at a train station but EVERYONE just walked past him? In a rush weren't they, beers to drink on a Saturday, way more important than helping an old man who'd probably not even spoken to a single human all day. Priorities and that.

etc...
etc...
etc.

People are, IMO, generally twats who don't have even an ounce of decency or what I would describe as humanity in them.

So yeah, I stand by my point.
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Yeah... but apart from that?
 
the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
I don't know, seems a decent enough poster, but people's opinions are formed by their experiences.
They may have had good experiences of society.

I haven't, so my opinion is different.

IMO it's the people who make society, not the laws ...etc.
unfortunately the words I'd use to describe our people would no doubt get me many enemies on here, so I won't bother :)

but I actually agree with him about the death penalty, an eye for an eye is a bit outdated and is simply revenge/retribution rather than a just punishment, all IMO.

I generally think that EVERYBODY deserves a second chance, unfortunately this lad in the article appears to have wasted his second chance, where we take him from here is anyone's guess. But I just can't onboard with one killing being ok but another isn't. Just me.

I was just laughing at "decent, humane country" because the majority (by no means all) of the people I meet on a daily basis are absolute cvnts. :) :) :)
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We are not miles apart but

Killing lots of kids means you deserve fuck all, I can't get my head round anyone thinking he deserves anything. On what grounds, why? No one can explain this, its just another cliche people have swallowed and repeat. Like we all get a free do over from anything.

You tell someone walking to the gallows its not a punishment, the reply might be quite colourful. As for the just part I simply don't agree if people were there that night I'm certain most would change their mind. But they weren't and it's easy to just move on with your life and not give it much after thought. We are becoming numb to evil deeds.

We do agree though about humane/civilised society being somewhat of a fantasy.
 
abu13 said:
Calm the fuck down, i saw a news report on youtube late last night, checked Sky and BBC this morning and couldnt see anything, that was why i clipped the only headline that i could see. The media have since picked up on it. No fucking big deal.
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Think it was on the front page of the BBC yesterday when I first read it. Details were sparse then so maybe people have been trying to confirm details before going big with the story
 
hilts said:
We are not miles apart but

Killing lots of kids means you deserve fuck all, I can't get my head round anyone thinking he deserves anything. On what grounds, why? No one can explain this, its just another cliche people have swallowed and repeat. Like we all get a free do over from anything.

You tell someone walking to the gallows its not a punishment, the reply might be quite colourful. As for the just part I simply don't agree if people were there that night I'm certain most would change their mind. But they weren't and it's easy to just move on with your life and not give it much after thought. We are becoming numb to evil deeds.

We do agree though about humane/civilised society being somewhat of a fantasy.
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Yeah, pretty much everything you've written make sense.

Tough subject which for me has too many intricacies to be able to make it into an "always do this/always do that" thing.

But I 100% get where you're coming from.
 
the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
Last Thursday I walked down Deansgate.
There was a woman (possibly Romanian by the language she was using) completely losing her shit.
I could hear her screaming from Great Northern Square and as I walked up she didn't stop.
I eventually got to just outside that Moon under the Water bar thing that's pretty much at the end of Market Street.
She was screaming and crying and must've been doing it for at least 5 mins by then.
You know what EVERYBODY was doing?

EVERYBODY!

Videoing it on their fucking phones.

Laughing.

Pointing.

It was fucking packed.

Not a single person offered anything in the five minutes I took to walk past staring at them all, thinking, "brilliant, 5'6" me has got to be the single, solitary person "brave" enough to get involved and somehow console this poor tragic person, yet-a-fucking-gain."

I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of these stories mate.

Do you want to hear the one about the very feeble old man who needed help to get down 5 steps at a train station but EVERYONE just walked past him? In a rush weren't they, beers to drink on a Saturday, way more important than helping an old man who'd probably not even spoken to a single human all day. Priorities and that.

etc...
etc...
etc.

The vast majority of people, IMO, are generally twats who don't have even an ounce of decency or what I would describe as humanity in them. You meet one or two with a working moral compass, but not very often.

So yeah, I stand by my point.
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And I could tell you about the brilliant people who give up their time to run charities, food banks, youth projects.
People who stop and help the elderly including the ones that help my mum.
The teachers that spend their own time doing things with their pupils, scout leaders, youth workers, those at Trafford General hospital who work in the shop, the list is endless it includes people who took in Ukrainian families and others who volunteer to work in poor countries providing health care. The majority (and although that only has to be 51%, it is far higher) are kind caring loving people.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
As was quoted in the bbc article.

They get 3 meals a day, why do they have to cook it?

Totally agree.

These are dangerous prisoners. They should be in a cell all day and fed through a hatch.
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Not aloud unless you are white human rights and all that.Charles Arthur Salvador, better known as Charles Bronson, has served nearly 50 years in prison – mostly in solitary confinement.3 Apr 20250_Britains-most-violent-prisoner-Charles-Bronson.jpg
 
Prisons can't just be brutal places where you lock people in windowless cells and throw food through a hatch. You make that job impossible for the people working in them. There has to be some level of civility which I guess is a balancing act between the criminal and the institution that is best judged by the people in those institutions.
 
Blue Mist said:
And I could tell you about the brilliant people who give up their time to run charities, food banks, youth projects.
People who stop and help the elderly including the ones that help my mum.
The teachers that spend their own time doing things with their pupils, scout leaders, youth workers, those at Trafford General hospital who work in the shop, the list is endless it includes people who took in Ukrainian families and others who volunteer to work in poor countries providing health care. The majority (and although that only has to be 51%, it is far higher) are kind caring loving people.
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I've attempted to write so many replies, but all of them came across as condescending and made me sound like a right prick and I don't want to get into a silly argument here.

You see lots of "good people" around you and that truly makes me happy, but society isn't divided into equally sized subsections nor do they have the same proportions of categories within them.

...but I can't stop myself from stating that you're simply wrong with your guessed at percentages.

No offence meant, but that's just a statistical fact. :(

EXAMPLE (both yours and mine)

For every one caring person who stops and helps the elderly who are in need (and I'm not talking about the coin operated "carers" here;), how many have walked by not even seeing the person let alone the need for any help?

You've noticed the one who stopped and helped, I've counted the hundreds who walk past. :(

That's about as simple as I can put it, but I think it ought to make my point.

I wish the world was as you described it but......

....anyway, no argument intended and it's going to be the last reply I write in this thread, as we're well off topic here.
 
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