Will MP`s vote for an attack on IS ?

[bobmcfc]

I think we need to identify those beheading our citizens if we can and serve justice on them where their crimes took place. None of ours that travel over there to fight with Isis should be allowed to return and should stand trial for war crimes.<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754241/Held-IS-five-jihadi-Brits-want-home-Wantaway-fighters-stripped-weapons-marched-punishment-centre.html#comments-2754241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ts-2754241</a>

Sickens me to think we would let any of them return

 

[Ducado]

I agree this is not our fight and us getting involved will not only help IS recruit even more nutters to their cause but they will also help them gain even more support from radicalised people who are currently living here as well. Dave just helped paint an even bigger target on this country. I'm so sick and tired of us acting like the moral police of the world and rushing to join the US in policing the world. When will the politicians and our people realise that we are no longer a global super power. Britannia no longer rules the waves we are an insignificant tiny island which is drowning in debt. Us bombing them will not defeat them and will only strengthen their cause in their minds and I expect several revenge attacks on this country as a result.

I keep asking this question and apart from some bizarre idea of "Economic Sanctions" nobody has come up what we can do about ISIL

 

[RandomJ]

I agree this is not our fight and us getting involved will not only help IS recruit even more nutters to their cause but they will also help them gain even more support from radicalised people who are currently living here as well. Dave just helped paint an even bigger target on this country. I'm so sick and tired of us acting like the moral police of the world and rushing to join the US in policing the world. When will the politicians and our people realise that we are no longer a global super power. Britannia no longer rules the waves we are an insignificant tiny island which is drowning in debt. Us bombing them will not defeat them and will only strengthen their cause in their minds and I expect several revenge attacks on this country as a result.

I keep asking this question and apart from some bizarre idea of "Economic Sanctions" nobody has come up what we can do about ISIL

Why do we have to do anything? Why not the neighbouring countries, why doesn't Iraq help sort itself and stop its fucking army running away that would be a good start. The US are already involved and they are far better equipped to deal with this than we are. Why do we have to follow them like the good lap dogs we are are spend a fortune on missiles and jets while people in our own country are forced to go to a food bank. The money spent on this futile attack could be better spent on homeland defence so if they do decide to attack us we are ready for it. Yes what they are doing is disgusting but this sort of shit happens every single day in Africa and we aren't rushing to drop bombs over there are we?

 

[Ducado]

I agree this is not our fight and us getting involved will not only help IS recruit even more nutters to their cause but they will also help them gain even more support from radicalised people who are currently living here as well. Dave just helped paint an even bigger target on this country. I'm so sick and tired of us acting like the moral police of the world and rushing to join the US in policing the world. When will the politicians and our people realise that we are no longer a global super power. Britannia no longer rules the waves we are an insignificant tiny island which is drowning in debt. Us bombing them will not defeat them and will only strengthen their cause in their minds and I expect several revenge attacks on this country as a result.

I keep asking this question and apart from some bizarre idea of "Economic Sanctions" nobody has come up what we can do about ISIL

Why do we have to do anything? Why not the neighbouring countries, why doesn't Iraq help sort itself and stop its fucking army running away that would be a good start. The US are already involved and they are far better equipped to deal with this than we are. Why do we have to follow them like the good lap dogs we are are spend a fortune on missiles and jets while people in our own country are forced to go to a food bank. The money spent on this futile attack could be better spent on homeland defence so if they do decide to attack us we are ready for it. Yes what they are doing is disgusting but this sort of shit happens every single day in Africa and we aren't rushing to drop bombs over there are we?

Well considering we helped to start this fire in the first place, we should help put it out, the Middle East has huge strategic interest tot he West for obvious reasons

 

[Damocles]

I don't believe that two centuries of messing up intervention in the Middle east gives us a moral imperative to yet again intervene in the Middle East, if anything the opposite.

In terms of what we can do about ISIL, I agree that we should allow their neighbours and crucially the Government of Iraq to deal with them.

We are talking about a combat force that would barely fit in the Stretford End covering a land the size of Great Britain. The Iraqi people themselves can deal with them with no problems. The reasons they believe their Government has no legitimacy and is but a puppet of the West is because the West deals with all of their issues in the same way as if it was an internal conflict.

Iraq cannot become a stand alone country unless it is able to stand alone and fight its own battles instead of calling in world superpowers every time a threat arises.

 

[Blue Maverick]

People go on about the cost ofthe bombs but we've already got them, I'm sure they have a shelf life it would be wrong not to use them on these cnuts. If the allies can decimate the large artillery and tanks from the air then let the Arab foot soldiers do the rest.

 

[Ducado]

I don't believe that two centuries of messing up intervention in the Middle east gives us a moral imperative to yet again intervene in the Middle East, if anything the opposite.

In terms of what we can do about ISIL, I agree that we should allow their neighbours and crucially the Government of Iraq to deal with them.

We are talking about a combat force that would barely fit in the Stretford End covering a land the size of Great Britain. The Iraqi people themselves can deal with them with no problems. The reasons they believe their Government has no legitimacy and is but a puppet of the West is because the West deals with all of their issues in the same way as if it was an internal conflict.

Iraq cannot become a stand alone country unless it is able to stand alone and fight its own battles instead of calling in world superpowers every time a threat arises.

Not quite true, there is a new government in place now one that has more legitimacy, it was the last government playing sectarian politics that really inflamed this situation, the Iraqi army lost a good part of it's arms and ammunition in the initial advance of ISIL, but I will give you a prediction here (I don't do this often) but what will happen is that forces in opposition to ISIL will soon start to make advances, they are being rearmed and now have an advanced air force

 

[Damocles]

I don't believe that two centuries of messing up intervention in the Middle east gives us a moral imperative to yet again intervene in the Middle East, if anything the opposite.

In terms of what we can do about ISIL, I agree that we should allow their neighbours and crucially the Government of Iraq to deal with them.

We are talking about a combat force that would barely fit in the Stretford End covering a land the size of Great Britain. The Iraqi people themselves can deal with them with no problems. The reasons they believe their Government has no legitimacy and is but a puppet of the West is because the West deals with all of their issues in the same way as if it was an internal conflict.

Iraq cannot become a stand alone country unless it is able to stand alone and fight its own battles instead of calling in world superpowers every time a threat arises.

Not quite true, there is a new government in place now one that has more legitimacy, it was the last government playing sectarian politics that really inflamed this situation, the Iraqi army lost a good part of it's arms and ammunition in the initial advance of ISIL, but I will give you a prediction here (I don't do this often) but what will happen is that forces in opposition to ISIL will soon start to make advances, they are being rearmed and now have an advanced air force

Whilst that is true, I'm referring more to the constant musical chairs the West has played with the Governments and Rulers of Iraq and that a single vote won't shift that deep seated resentment about who is taking orders from who. I think most of us in the West, if we really had to bet our mortgages on it, would probably concede that the Iraqi Government takes much of its orders from the US.

To the every day Iraqi, what difference does it make if laws are coming from an external aggressor in Mosul or an external aggressor in Washington? Why should they pick up arms and fight for either side at great risk to themselves?

As I have said in the previous post, I am great believer in the notion that nations are forged through shared experiences and shared challenges. We will never have a free Iraq where liberty is of paramount importance because there is little desire in the populace to fight. And when they do eventually rebel it won't be by taking up arms against a corrupt Government like France, Britain and the US have done at various times in their history, it will be by taking up arms against the people who run their country in their eyes - namely the Americans and their allies.

Every time we intervene here in any form, we are creating more resentment about the interference in their country and more evidence that they aren't an independent nation.

We can arm them and re-arm them every time they retreat leaving hundreds of millions of dollars of weapons behind them for their enemy but it will make little difference unless the people of Iraq who desire liberty are willing to fight for it themselves. I also rarely make predictions but mine for this situation is that we will see Western troops on the ground fighting ISIL within months.

 

[SWP's back]

Last time we did this in 2003 we ended where we are now, we make the same idiotic mistakes again and go into battle we end up in the same seat again 10 years down the line. A big part of me thinks this move by ISIS is deliberate they want this just as much as Cameron does. We will never win this war by trying to wipe them out it's and simple commercial gain that's at stake here.

i think the whole situation is different to 2003

Iraq now have a government and they are requesting our help
we are in a coalition of over 50 country's on this
there is no lies or misconception being spouted by our government
although i think military solution is not the real solution i think we are going there this time with honest intentions.

Yeah but when a lot of those countries are dictatorships propped up by the us and the US (among others), that argument kinda loses its charm somewhat.

Like the UAE?

 

[SWP's back]

It's about removing assad pure and simple the uk population are being manipulated yet again. How can people not see this?

Because you're talking bollocks.

 

[mcmanus]

I think we should have let the Yanks and others deal with it. When outsiders meddle with Muslim countries they do tend to get pissed off pretty quick about nosey twats fucking in their business. Then the west start killing them and once again the cycle goes round and round..... bomb, shoot, starve them and the west create more radicals (or as they are classified 'terrorists').

What's the point in sending 6 planes, what difference is that going to make really? Now we are on very pissed off peoples' shitlist. Let the yanks/Israel/other Arab states sort the mess out....... why us?

We wouldn't give a flying fuck about the middle east if it didn't have black gold.

 

[marco]

I think we should have let the Yanks and others deal with it. When outsiders meddle with Muslim countries they do tend to get pissed off pretty quick about nosey twats fucking in their business. Then the west start killing them and once again the cycle goes round and round..... bomb, shoot, starve them and the west create more radicals (or as they are classified 'terrorists').

What's the point in sending 6 planes, what difference is that going to make really? Now we are on very pissed off peoples' shitlist. Let the yanks/Israel/other Arab states sort the mess out....... why us?

We wouldn't give a flying fuck about the middle east if it didn't have black gold.

do you seriously think if we had not sent six fighter jets over they would have said good old Britain we will leave them alone, we have been a target of these kind of terrorists for years and will remain so, they basically have declared war on this country by chopping the head off of one of our nationals 'with more likely to follow' i seriously hope they napalm the fucking lot of them as a warning to future groups

 

[mackenzie]

We have to do something to stop the genocide over there. I really don't care about the politics to be honest.

 

[hilts]

I think we should have let the Yanks and others deal with it. When outsiders meddle with Muslim countries they do tend to get pissed off pretty quick about nosey twats fucking in their business. Then the west start killing them and once again the cycle goes round and round..... bomb, shoot, starve them and the west create more radicals (or as they are classified 'terrorists').

What's the point in sending 6 planes, what difference is that going to make really? Now we are on very pissed off peoples' shitlist. Let the yanks/Israel/other Arab states sort the mess out....... why us?

We wouldn't give a flying fuck about the middle east if it didn't have black gold.

do you seriously think if we had not sent six fighter jets over they would have said good old Britain we will leave them alone, we have been a target of these kind of terrorists for years and will remain so, they basically have declared war on this country by chopping the head off of one of our nationals 'with more likely to follow' i seriously hope they napalm the fucking lot of them as a warning to future groups

You are looking at it arse over tit, do you think our six fighters will make any difference, haven't we stood up to the plate/meddled enough in this area, if these mad muslim fuckers do really want to eradicate non muslim culture then france,germany,spain,italy,audtralia,israel and in fact dozens of countries should be responding

So as in the past the yanks then us seem to pile in there and then get denounced for it by everyone including our own citizens what would the problem be with just leaving this to someone else for one

If this become our policy then maybe some uk muslims may not decide to join these jihadist groups, it might make no difference whatsoever, in which case we have lost nothing anyhow

 

[Scottyboi]

It's about removing assad pure and simple the uk population are being manipulated yet again. How can people not see this?

Because you're talking bollocks.

Ok then right said fred.

 

[hilts]

It's about removing assad pure and simple the uk population are being manipulated yet again. How can people not see this?

Because you're talking bollocks.

Ok then right said fred.

More effort required there fella, that was just lazy

 

[dronefromsector7g]

Because you're talking bollocks.

Ok then right said fred.

More effort required there fella, that was just lazy

Should've typed it in Arabic.

 

[Scottyboi]

Because you're talking bollocks.

Ok then right said fred.

More effort required there fella, that was just lazy

Haha waiting for my food he is probably right. I can't prove my point i just really think we are using ISIL as a shoe into Syria

 

[TangerineSteve17]

I think we should have let the Yanks and others deal with it. When outsiders meddle with Muslim countries they do tend to get pissed off pretty quick about nosey twats fucking in their business. Then the west start killing them and once again the cycle goes round and round..... bomb, shoot, starve them and the west create more radicals (or as they are classified 'terrorists').

What's the point in sending 6 planes, what difference is that going to make really? Now we are on very pissed off peoples' shitlist. Let the yanks/Israel/other Arab states sort the mess out....... why us?

We wouldn't give a flying fuck about the middle east if it didn't have black gold.

do you seriously think if we had not sent six fighter jets over they would have said good old Britain we will leave them alone, we have been a target of these kind of terrorists for years and will remain so, they basically have declared war on this country by chopping the head off of one of our nationals 'with more likely to follow' i seriously hope they napalm the fucking lot of them as a warning to future groups

It was good to hear in the news, that there were prayers and pleads in the mosques in Britain, for the life of Mr Henning.

Once science has achieved an alternative fuel, which can completely replace oil (they might be there already, I don't know) I wonder what the civilized countries will do, when something like this happens again. Will they go to battle solely because of genocide/dictatorships/provocation? It is a wonder, and the day is surely coming, either when the oil dries out, or when we just don't need it any more. Then that can not be in the argument.

In my view, regrettably, the world is a big place with a dominating history of war. In the UK we have a good thing going, I wouldn't want us to do anything to jeopardize that.

In short, can't we live in our little bit of land and lead happy, free lives? And just wait or the others to catch up? I have not made my mind up about this yet.

 

[hilts]

Ok then right said fred.

More effort required there fella, that was just lazy

Haha waiting for my food he is probably right. I can't prove my point i just really think we are using ISIL as a shoe into Syria

I actually think for a change we actually don't want to be anywhere near the place, this is a real pain in the arse for Cameron, just before an election if he had one wish it would have been to avoid the middle east like the plague