Read that first line again and then say it seriously. We saw his footballing ability last night against fucking Latvia. His issue was availability the year before and about 4 other seasons here since his arrival. Interestingly you have commented on this post and not where you challenged me to name more than 4 better defenders than him............
Will we win the league this season?
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blueparrot
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Van Dijk, currently is that a joke? Gvardiol, not yet.Guehi ,nope.The other 3 maybe as good but whether bettter that's close
blueparrot
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No he didn't do it from right back in the treble season he never played right back in that season he did it from centre half,
VVD has also declined but for the same reasons you want to say he is declining, can easily be said to Stones.
Inverted right back I think they called it mate...
blueparrot
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Stones hasn't declined though, his availability is an issue,or has been, his ability and form isn't.
No he didn't play inverted right back at all he played centre back and stepped into midfield, Walker and Akanji played right back.
His form is, his cult hero status blinds everybody when he plays. Spurs as an example he had a stinker (I know most players did) but his defending that game was shocking and he was at fault for the first goal. We have looked better at the back without him and that is the sorry truth of him now and it is fine to say, he is older and been crippled with injuries throughout his career. It would be a miracle if he was the same player of 23.
blueparrot
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Yet you rate current Van Dijk above him that't just nonsense.There's a reason liverpool have conceded 2 in 6 out of 11 games so far this season and van dijk is part of that reason.Very weird poster.
I didn't say I rated VVD as much these days, I'd have him above present day John Stones though. The exact things you are levelling at VVD you can throw at Stones but tenfold. Weird poster? Let me guess I am not a blue because I don't dream of John Stones? In the list you replied to, Gvardiol is in there. I then exchanged posts with someone where I talked up Khusanov. The conversation can simply end that Stones won't be available enough to make a difference regardless.
I hope Stones deserves to be regarded as the best CB in the league by the end of this season, but he should play at least 2 months as a regular starter at City before being mentioned in a sensible conversation about the top CBs in the league.
As things stand, he is a 3rd choice CB at City. Can't say about last season as he had just 6 PL starts. He finished the 23/24 season as a 3rd choice CB as well. That was ages ago and he has barely played since then.
Let's hope that he can stay fit and show he deserves to be considered one of the very best CBs in the league or even the world. He's nowhere near such a conversation right now, having started 10 league games in the last 18 months or so. (Van Dijk has started about 50 league games in that period.)
Danny Tiatto
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Think you’re being very harsh on VVD. Liverpool have two new (attacking minded fullbacks) and he is playing alongside Konate who has been in complete clown mode this season. So that’s 3 out of a 4 man backline either out of form or adapting.
I watched the Arsenal game and Van Dijk was brilliant. Arsenal didn’t even look like getting a sniff from any of their set pieces. We actually handled them extremely well too and I put a lot of that down Donnarumma.
It’s always handy to have a player with proper presence whether it be a centre half or goalkeeper to take complete ownership and organisation in situations against teams who are very well drilled at attacking set pieces. Someone who can throw the intimidation back at the attackers and have them 2nd guessing.
Marvin.
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Stones is 31. VVD is 34. I can tell you that at 34 VVD legs are going. Stones isn't at that stage yet.Some players like Thiago Silva can go on and on because there is more to defending than just being fast, but you can see the deterioration in Van Dijk's game. His pace got him out of a lot of problems, now you can run him, as Caicedo did at the Bridge, and Van Dijk went into reverse.
Marvin.
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The only reason Stones wasn't a regular starter was injuries. I don't see any drop off in his ability.
WestGorton
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I agree but unfortunately he gets injured a lot. Not his fault but as Pep would say "it is what it is'.
Marvin.
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Results matter first and foremost but performances are also important as they predict results to come.
This is from the BBC article. You can't argue with it imo. What it says is that City are the best attacking side and the 4th best defensive side. You might want to argue that chance creation does not matter if you don't put the ball in the back of the net (Man Utd) but still it adds flesh to the bones. Liverpool are not performing very well according to these measures.
According to this stat, Burnley are playing even more poorly than their results suggest. Similarly Sunderland's chance creation is very poor. I think there are things that you can glean from this that are not apparent in the league table.
This is from the BBC article. You can't argue with it imo. What it says is that City are the best attacking side and the 4th best defensive side. You might want to argue that chance creation does not matter if you don't put the ball in the back of the net (Man Utd) but still it adds flesh to the bones. Liverpool are not performing very well according to these measures.
According to this stat, Burnley are playing even more poorly than their results suggest. Similarly Sunderland's chance creation is very poor. I think there are things that you can glean from this that are not apparent in the league table.
Stones' appearance record in the PL in the first 9 seasons is 50% including coming on as sub for a few minutes at a time in the 2018/19 run in.
A model for hand bags but not fitness.
Marvin.
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As you say even prior to last season, he missed a lot of games. I think it was largely muscle strains but last season he picked up a foot injury which ruined his season. It seems the foot injury is behind him now. If we can get 25 league games out of John Stones that will be a result. I'd take that.
Marvin.
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Yes but if you look back through his app. record as Corky has done, you will find that he typically manages to play 20 league games a season. It's not ideal but if we can get back the old Stones and manage his game time, I think he's still a really big defensive asset for us. Kompany was similar.
Stones was fit in April and May 2024 when we were fighting to win the 4 in a row, but Pep started him only once, Palace away (early April). Pep started him in the FA Cup semi vs Chelsea, and in the final vs United, but he wasn't great.
Stones had 6 PL starts in 24/25, we lost half of those games, and experienced two of the biggest defeats under Pep: 0:4 vs Spurs and 5:1 at Arsenal. Nothing to write home about. Generally, last season our league results were better without Stones than with him. But since the sample is too small, one can't draw firm conclusions about his form. Apparently, it wasn't great.
This season, Stones started 3 league games, we lost 2 of them. One can't seriously claim he was great vs Spurs or Brighton. From the 4 pl/cl games he started we won one: at Wolves.
So, he hasn't been great since April 2024, if not earlier. You can't say he has been at the same level as in 22/23. What's more, our league record with him starting games has been worse than without him in the first XI (since 23/24).
I hope Stones regains his 22/23 form and helps the team compete for the big trophies. He should stay fit for at least 2 months. Otherwise, it would be a mistake to make him our 1st choice CB.
Edit: our record in the PL with and without Stones starting (since April 2024, last 18 months or so):
with Stones: 1,5 ppg
without Stones: 2,18 ppg
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Stones played a varied number of roles in 2022-23.
He played CB 17 times, DM 9 times and RB 7 times.
A few of the times he played CB he stepped into DM, but sometimes he didn’t. Sometimes when he played RB he stayed at RB and didn’t move into midfield, other times he did. 9 times he started in DM and within those games there were occasions where didn’t move back to either CB nor RB, but there were times he did.
VVD legs are going, you are arguing with yourself. VVD had one bad injury and that has been it. Stones is injured every other week and that amount of injuries will take its toll on the body. Simple as that. I can't think of the last game I went, wow what a game from Stones and when all of our defenders are fit, he doesn't get close to starting.