We shall have to agree to disagree as to what constitutes luck and what constitutes handball!
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Would you prefer Spurs or Liverpool win the CL ?
- Thread starter Le Havre Oswald
- Start date
We shall have to agree to disagree as to what constitutes luck and what constitutes handball!
Badensbluemoon
Well-Known Member
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- 15 Jul 2014
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- 713
the handball existed, you got lucky that Var referee didn't use the camera view where that handball was clear to seeWe shall have to agree to disagree as to what constitutes luck and what constitutes handball!
the handball existed, you got lucky that Var referee didn't use the camera view where that handball was clear to see
Handball has to be deliberate or, at least, the arm has to be in an unnatural position, away from the body for it to be a foul. In neither case did the ball brushing Llorente's arm qualify as a foul - no matter if the ref had seen replays from every angle imaginable. It was absolutely the correct decision.
And, to elaborate on your other point, a player making a mistake - whether in attack or defence - is no more lucky for the other team than brilliant play by that player is unlucky for the other team. In my opinion.
Anyway, 'tis all in the past now. Your team has since achieved something remarkable. Hopefully mine can too, nine days from now.
cleavers
Moderator
It might just save the world.....Anyway, 'tis all in the past now. Your team has since achieved something remarkable. Hopefully mine can too, nine days from now.
(I'm back hating you after the game though ;-) )
It might just save the world.....
(I'm back hating you after the game though ;-) )
The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
Quite right too..............though, if we do win, I hope you'll give us an amnesty of twenty four hours.
cleavers
Moderator
Might give you 12.Quite right too..............though, if we do win, I hope you'll give us an amnesty of twenty four hours.
Metalartin
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Nope!... unnatural position, arm away form the body etc this is clearly nothing to do with scoring goals but defending them. This rule was introduced for defenders getting in the way of shots on goal. Refs have always viewed ANY use of the arm ,that has gained an attacker the advantage for a goal, to be against the spirit of the game.Handball has to be deliberate or, at least, the arm has to be in an unnatural position, away from the body for it to be a foul
The rules are 100 years old or something daft and they were never designed with VAR where everything is strictly letter of the law in mind(so many things were left to the general consensus, things that the refs interpreted/agreed on themselves). The rules aren't changing in June(?) they are simply being more clearly defined for VAR(should have been done before this season but that's UEFA/the FA for you). I still maintain that the ball did deviate from it's original course leaving the keeper in no mans land as he was expecting it to graze him at best... so if a Ref see's that in any era he rules it out. The trouble is, the chances of a ref seeing that without VAR were slim.
If that's ruled out, none of you Spurs fans would complain too much, as an attacker you know you've fluffed the chance if you've let it hit your arm, whether you meant it or not. It's common sense. What's done is done(it shoudn't have come down to one goal either, 3 of Spur's other goals were from mistakes at the back), the ref didn't see it and it was difficult to spot on all but one vital angle but lets not try and make out it's ever been ok to use your hands/arms/elbows in any part of scoring a goal.
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cleavers
Moderator
OK, I'll probably sleep 9 of them, unlike you.
No no no... unnatural position, away form the body etc this rule was introduced for defenders getting in the way of shots on goal. Refs have always viewed ANY use of the hand that has gained an attacker the advantage for a goal to be against the spirit of the game.
The rules are 100 years old or something daft and they were never designed with VAR, letter of the law in mind. The rules aren't changing in June(?) they are simply being more clearly defined. I still maintain that the ball did deviate from it's original course leaving the keeper in no mans land as he was expecting it to graze him at best... so if a Ref see's that in any era he rules it out. The trouble is the chances of a ref seeing that without VAR were slim.
Mate, this is what FIFA Laws of the Game has to say about handball:
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence
In Llorente's case, his arm was directly in front of his body. It made no movement towards the ball. He saw the ball late, through a forest of players.
It doesn't actually matter that the ball grazed his arm and deviated very slightly before hitting his thigh / hip and going in. As the rule stands, until June 1st, it was not handball.
Anyway, I've argued this enough and I don't want to be any more of a pain about it!