WSC article on Tevez

[sweep]

once losed tevez (and tranny too) the scum has fallen in championship league.

no.

possibly the most pointless post you've ever made - and that's saying something...

It's relevant to the OP, you're looking obsessed with Mancio Billy.

 

[BobKowalski]

Somewhat ironic that prior to Tevez joining us he was regarded as little more than a support/squad player and not worth the money - oh and he would never be a 20 goal a season striker.

Now he is irreplaceable. Which he isn't even if he has been sensational for us and one of our best players by far.

That Tevez will be gone is fairly obvious given his management team is at odds with City and that they move him on every 2 years or so. Mancini is clearly preparing for life without Tevez and one suspects not entirely unhappy to be doing so.

That said if Mancini thinks we have a better chance with Tevez in the team of achieving our goals of FA Cup and top 4 then he will play him and if he thinks we have a better chance without then he won't. As with Bellamy last year Mancini tends not to let personal issues get in the way of picking the best team. Actually I don't think either Tevez or Mancini let personal issues get in the way so am quite relaxed how it turns out.

 

[simon23]

firstly we havent been playing well recently despite results...westham was awful bar the first 25 mins, blackburn just as bad.

yes we will be fine without him...BUT i want better than fine....i want to be competing at the very top and tevez is a player who can help get us there....why oh why do city fans on here seem so intent on dismantling a squad that is on the verge of huge things by wanting one of our key players to leave.....we should be BUILDING on the key players we have and along with hart kompany, dejong silva yaya balo tev is one of those key players.....

and please tell me on recent form who of our attacking forwards is better???????

No need to exaggerate, losing one player doesn't equate to dismantling a squad and you can't blame fans if we do lose him, it wasn't us who signed a transfer request.

Silva and Toure have done more to make us tick as a team recently.

Im not blaming fans...im questioning the seemingly desire that an alarmign number of fans see to have to want him to go...I just dont understand it?

silva i agree is just as vital (he was in the list of kep players i put)

yaya was in that list as well but he is inconsistant as well

the point about dismantling a squad is the fact that if we let him go then it is vital to find someone else like him and that wont be easy at all...he is one of the top strikers in the world and there arent many like him (in the same mould)...we already knw he can be a success in the prem unlike some one else who isnt playing here (like aguero etc....and dont get me wrong i think he is a fantastic player but plenty of good players come to the prem and really struggle)

 

[persvenality cult]

as good as and better than any other striker at the club.

stop letting the transfer request get in the way. He did it for reasons unknown but he still performs and is a vital member of the squad/team.

every player has a dip in form occasionally but at least when tev isnt scoring he is still busting a gut for the team and making things happen.

22 goals this season says how important he is to us.....have the rest of the attacking players in the squad got that many between them (AJ silva balo and dzeko)....they probably havent got many more

balo = 10?
dzeko = 5/6?
aj = ????
silva = 3/4?

how many assists does tevez have...last time i saw that stat is was about 7 or 8...who has more than that in the team....silva, yaya???

these are all genuine questions by the way

I don't see it quite so black and white, but they are good points, fair questions and it's a subject worthy of debate and discussion.

Tevez's numbers are impressive. The overall goalscoring figures for the team are less impressive.

It's impossible to say from that, what impact he is having on the rest of the team. My judgement is that they are all excellent players, easily capable of playing more creatively than the stats suggest. We passed, pressed and ran Utd to death without him. I know we haven't shone in the last two games but in both games we started like a train, creating many chances before getting drawn back into a scrap. To me, that's shows the potential of the team. Once we put away a few more chances, are able to find those fluid periods more readily, reduce the clumsiness in defence, cut out the moments of panic in possession, we're there (very nearly up with Real would be my estimation).

Personally the best outcome would be that Tevez took a step back, and focused on becoming part of that ideal whole. Much in the way that Rooney's new commitment to Utd has precipitated his game becoming more streamlined over the past few months. Now he is just playing highly profficient and effective 'come short, show, trap, short pass, move up', really simple but with total concentration and supreme efficiency, not even worrying about beating people or even scoring goals.

Tevez's trajectory has been the opposite. Immediately after withdrawing the request, he played some brilliant stuff, great solo goals, but as the weeks go by he's lost that peak form and doesn't appear to have adopted a simple, concentrated game to helped the team. I think it's at least possible that their contrasting fortunes come from a differing level of commitment to the team... but equally I think Tevez is suffering from being burned out. If he could start fresh next year, I'd be delighted. But that depends on him. Do we really feel the same respect from him to this club as Rooney has shown Utd? I'd suggest not.

The one thing that decides it for me is the spirit the team have shown in his absence. As much as Blackburn and West Ham ended up as tighter games than should have been the case, both games saw city players really dig deep as if we could secure the result through sheer force of will. Star players who overshadow others often disrupt that sort of spirit.

The analogy for me has always been Ibra at Inter. They said that he won them three Championships single handedly, because he scored the goals in many tight games. But paradoxically his removal saw the others step up like men possesed, and enabled Mou to reshape the team into a more flexible unit, adding more pace, more creativity in midfield and unlocking collective strength in attack.

Another outside example I would point to is Messi, another one playing false nine. He plays an even more individual game... but I never get the sense that he's dropping right back into his own half to play on a regular basis. He's just constantly, constantly on the prowl for gaps between midfield and attack. I hope Tevez can realise this is usually the correct balance. But it's not just enough to realise, he would have to be able to commit and sustain that commitment. I think that's pretty unlikely. As such, his gifts would be compensation for him lacking something that the team needs. We might do better with a very decent conventional striker.

 

[bluetoo]

Carlos the conundrum: He's everything you would want to see in a city shirt. Plays with passion and all day long commitment, scares the shit out of the opposition and scores a shed load of goals to boot. The only thing is that he could be wearing any shirt when he runs out there.Imo while he's a city player we should squeeze every ounce out of him just as he and his agent does with us...we should also resign ourselves to the fact that if and when a 'better' offer comes along he'll be off and not look back once.

 

[TheSituation]

as good as and better than any other striker at the club.

stop letting the transfer request get in the way. He did it for reasons unknown but he still performs and is a vital member of the squad/team.

every player has a dip in form occasionally but at least when tev isnt scoring he is still busting a gut for the team and making things happen.

22 goals this season says how important he is to us.....have the rest of the attacking players in the squad got that many between them (AJ silva balo and dzeko)....they probably havent got many more

balo = 10?
dzeko = 5/6?
aj = ????
silva = 3/4?

how many assists does tevez have...last time i saw that stat is was about 7 or 8...who has more than that in the team....silva, yaya???

these are all genuine questions by the way

In all competitions:
Tevez has 22 goals and 8 assists out of 38 apps
Dzeko has 3 goals and 3 assists out of 15 apps
Balo has 10 goals out of 24 apps
AJ has 7 goals and 5 assists out of 37 apps
Yaya has 7 goals and 6 assists out of 43 apps
Silva has 6 goals and 11 assists out of 45 apps

just for reference.

I stopped reading when I saw you type "Dzeko has 3 goals". Surely you're not a City fan if you can't actually remember how many goals he's scored in all comps this season. Did you just make those stats up?

 

[simon23]

Somewhat ironic that prior to Tevez joining us he was regarded as little more than a support/squad player and not worth the money - oh and he would never be a 20 goal a season striker.

Now he is irreplaceable. Which he isn't even if he has been sensational for us and one of our best players by far.

That Tevez will be gone is fairly obvious given his management team is at odds with City and that they move him on every 2 years or so. Mancini is clearly preparing for life without Tevez and one suspects not entirely unhappy to be doing so.

That said if Mancini thinks we have a better chance with Tevez in the team of achieving our goals of FA Cup and top 4 then he will play him and if he thinks we have a better chance without then he won't. As with Bellamy last year Mancini tends not to let personal issues get in the way of picking the best team. Actually I don't think either Tevez or Mancini let personal issues get in the way so am quite relaxed how it turns out.

I agree with the bit about the management of tev and city being at odds....i think that is where the problem lies Bob

But i really disagree witht he last bit about Mancini (and tevez)....Mancini argued with belamy over training schedules (and bellamy having his own due to his ongoing knee problems)...mancini didnt like it (rightly or wrongly...saw his arse about it and shifted bellamy out....with bellamy probably not helping himself by being just as arguementatve, stubborn etc!)

mancini and tevez clearly disagree about things ( i thikn they disagree on tactics for one but there are probably other things as well)

like everyone says what is most important is the club....not mancini or tevez...the club is the most improtant and what is best for the club....

in my opinion what is best for the club is that both of them pull their respective heads out of their respective arses and take this club forward as mancini and tev onside with each other could be a leathal combination!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheSituation]

http://www.wsc.co.uk/content/view/7240/38/
replacing him would be a borderline impossible task, as he not only provides both goals and assists, but also plays the "false nine" role of the deep-dropping central striker – so integral to City's set up – superbly well.

Biggest load of shit I've ever read, his "false nine" approach is detrimental to us if anything, our best performances this season with Tevez in the side have come when he's left the creativity to the likes of Silva and stayed higher up the pitch himself. He will not be hard to replace if we sign a good enough player.

 

[sweep]

as good as and better than any other striker at the club.

stop letting the transfer request get in the way. He did it for reasons unknown but he still performs and is a vital member of the squad/team.

every player has a dip in form occasionally but at least when tev isnt scoring he is still busting a gut for the team and making things happen.

22 goals this season says how important he is to us.....have the rest of the attacking players in the squad got that many between them (AJ silva balo and dzeko)....they probably havent got many more

balo = 10?
dzeko = 5/6?
aj = ????
silva = 3/4?

how many assists does tevez have...last time i saw that stat is was about 7 or 8...who has more than that in the team....silva, yaya???

these are all genuine questions by the way

I don't see it quite so black and white, but they are good points, fair questions and it's a subject worthy of debate and discussion.

Tevez's numbers are impressive. The overall goalscoring figures for the team are less impressive.

It's impossible to say from that, what impact he is having on the rest of the team. My judgement is that they are all excellent players, easily capable of playing more creatively than the stats suggest. We passed, pressed and ran Utd to death without him. I know we haven't shone in the last two games but in both games we started like a train, creating many chances before getting drawn back into a scrap. To me, that's shows the potential of the team. Once we put away a few more chances, are able to find those fluid periods more readily, reduce the clumsiness in defence, cut out the moments of panic in possession, we're there (very nearly up with Real would be my estimation).

Personally the best outcome would be that Tevez took a step back, and focused on becoming part of that ideal whole. Much in the way that Rooney's new commitment to Utd has precipitated his game becoming more streamlined over the past few months. Now he is just playing highly profficient and effective 'come short, show, trap, short pass, move up', really simple but with total concentration and supreme efficiency, not even worrying about beating people or even scoring goals.

Tevez's trajectory has been the opposite. Immediately after withdrawing the request, he played some brilliant stuff, great solo goals, but as the weeks go by he's lost that peak form and doesn't appear to have adopted a simple, concentrated game to helped the team. I think it's at least possible that their contrasting fortunes come from a differing level of commitment to the team... but equally I think Tevez is suffering from being burned out. If he could start fresh next year, I'd be delighted. But that depends on him. Do we really feel the same respect from him to this club as Rooney has shown Utd? I'd suggest not.

The one thing that decides it for me is the spirit the team have shown in his absence. As much as Blackburn and West Ham ended up as tighter games than should have been the case, both games saw city players really dig deep as if we could secure the result through sheer force of will. Star players who overshadow others often disrupt that sort of spirit.

The analogy for me has always been Ibra at Inter. They said that he won them three Championships single handedly, because he scored the goals in many tight games. But paradoxically his removal saw the others step up like men possesed, and enabled Mou to reshape the team into a more flexible unit, adding more pace, more creativity in midfield and unlocking collective strength in attack.

Another outside example I would point to is Messi, another one playing false nine. He plays an even more individual game... but I never get the sense that he's dropping right back into his own half to play on a regular basis. He's just constantly, constantly on the prowl for gaps between midfield and attack. I hope Tevez can realise this is usually the correct balance. But it's not just enough to realise, he would have to be able to commit and sustain that commitment. I think that's pretty unlikely. As such, his gifts would be compensation for him lacking something that the team needs. We might do better with a very decent conventional striker.

Great post CC.

I think Tevez really does believe he's bigger/more important than City, that has to affect the mentality of his teammates.

I've thought similar to your last paragraph, if your striker is going to drop deep then he needs to be able to provide quick and high quality passes to his supporting players, hardly Tevez' forte.

 

[BobKowalski]

Somewhat ironic that prior to Tevez joining us he was regarded as little more than a support/squad player and not worth the money - oh and he would never be a 20 goal a season striker.

Now he is irreplaceable. Which he isn't even if he has been sensational for us and one of our best players by far.

That Tevez will be gone is fairly obvious given his management team is at odds with City and that they move him on every 2 years or so. Mancini is clearly preparing for life without Tevez and one suspects not entirely unhappy to be doing so.

That said if Mancini thinks we have a better chance with Tevez in the team of achieving our goals of FA Cup and top 4 then he will play him and if he thinks we have a better chance without then he won't. As with Bellamy last year Mancini tends not to let personal issues get in the way of picking the best team. Actually I don't think either Tevez or Mancini let personal issues get in the way so am quite relaxed how it turns out.

I agree with the bit about the management of tev and city being at odds....i think that is where the problem lies Bob

But i really disagree witht he last bit about Mancini (and tevez)....Mancini argued with belamy over training schedules (and bellamy having his own due to his ongoing knee problems)...mancini didnt like it (rightly or wrongly...saw his arse about it and shifted bellamy out....with bellamy probably not helping himself by being just as arguementatve, stubborn etc!)

mancini and tevez clearly disagree about things ( i thikn they disagree on tactics for one but there are probably other things as well)

like everyone says what is most important is the club....not mancini or tevez...the club is the most improtant and what is best for the club....

in my opinion what is best for the club is that both of them pull their respective heads out of their respective arses and take this club forward as mancini and tev onside with each other could be a leathal combination!!!!!!!!!

I agree that Bellamy and Mancini clashed constantly and it ended with Bellers being shown the door however that happened at season end. During the season Mancini picked Bellamy irrespective of any differences. Mancini only stopped picking Bellamy at WHU in the last game when it didn't matter anymore.

I can see the same pattern with Mancini picking Tevez if its he believes its the best way of getting the results we need despite any personal issues. I also think Tevez is not dissimilar in this respect of putting aside whatever issues he may have and giving it all on the pitch.

Once the season is over I can see Mancini happy to see the back of Tevez and replace him with someone else. I know people still mope over Bellamy but we have moved on as a team and a squad without him and I think the same will happen when Tevez leaves. Its a bigger ask to replace Tevez but it can and will be done.

Personally if Tevez can and does commit himself to staying I would be delighted but just can't see it happening.