Why Is Communism Celebrated By This City?

[1.618034]

Wasn't there a thread like this a few weeks ago...?

Anyway, Communism failed/fails because it controls it's economy through an authoritarian regime, which encourages corruption and nepotism. So it's Authoritarianism that's the problem, whether it's left wing, right wing or West Wing!

Socialism and conservative capitalism on the other hand are both essentially liberal because a majority of the people have a say on how the economy should be run. Socialism and Conservatism haven't "failed" and I'd say that a balance of the two is the best way forward, depending on the needs of the time.

As for Manchester "celebrating" communism then I don't see how recognising historical facts and events is celebrating or endorsing anything. The idea/philosophy, especially during the Industrial Revolution and the horrendous conditions that the workers lived in, in Cities like Manchester, is IMO certainly worthy of recognition, despite it ultimately failing.

There are plenty of places that record and recognise the Roman Empire and they weren't exactly paragons of virtue.

To not recognise these historically significant events, would be very strange, unless we lived under an authoritarian regime.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Stalin and Mao.

Not the ideas promoted by Marx and Engles.

The point is, communism always throws up the Stalins and the Mao's.

 

[stonerblue]

Well, without trawling the net, off the top of my head Stalin was responsible for over 20 million deaths in Russia alone,
Mao many more. Fascism was originally Italian inspired, taken on by Germany, and since by a few South American
dictatorships, the totals murdered by this creed are far less.

Sorry mate but that's not good enough. Things off the top of your head are not 'established facts'.
I too have had a quick trawl of the web and the only thing that most of the answers agreed on was that it was imfuckinpossible to establish the fact regarding which political ideology was top of the death charts.

 

[Magicpole]

The point is, communism always throws up the Stalins and the Mao's.

Always?

How many other mass myrderers can you name?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Always?

How many other mass myrderers can you name?

Castro, Kim jong un, his dad, Ceaucescu, Pol Pot...

 

[Alex - City Matters]

Because whilst I live in Manchester and love the place, it's a city far too much to the left politically - in my opinion of course.

The place is full of champagne socialists these days, such as my old housemate, who has a picture of Marx on his wall whilst he collects a £65k salary plus Audi and goes away to capitalist countries four times a year on holiday.

The city is very liberal which is fantastic but what I'm trying to say is there's too many people who think being liberal has to go hand-in-hand with socialism, which it obviously doesn't.

That said Marx and Engels had great intentions and because communism never worked, to compare them to National Socialists or Fascists is ridiculous. The whole idea was about freeing those who had fallen victim to opportunist (near) slave drivers and The Nazi's, for example, started out purposely to victimise (and later murder).

As a leftie, I obviously disagree about the city being 'too left' - but you do make some great points.

At most, if you despise the works of Marx and Engels, they were a product of the times and the cesspit conditions the industrial working class were living/working in. The works did force those in power to pay more attention to the rank and file, be it the development of New Liberalism under Gladstone and Lloyd George or One Nation Conservatism under Disraeli. Both improved working class conditions, largely part to the social and intellectual pressure socialism put them under. I think most can agree that the aforementioned was good for society - regardless of what we think today.

Also like your 'liberal and socialism' point. I think far too many champagne socialists believe they are socialist, when in actual fact they are progressive liberals.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Communism at its purest, albeit impossible to achieve, wants to see everyone as being equal.

Why is that necessarily a good thing for wider society?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The point is, communism always throws up the Stalins and the Mao's.

That is the point that is all too frequently missed.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Sorry mate but that's not good enough. Things off the top of your head are not 'established facts'.
I too have had a quick trawl of the web and the only thing that most of the answers agreed on was that it was imfuckinpossible to establish the fact regarding which political ideology was top of the death charts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html

This is Mao's legacy, 45 million. Add to that Lenin, Stalin, Pol pot and others. Total killed in WW2 55 million, that includes
Brits, Americans etc; in combat or civilian bombings.
Hitler and Mussolinis fascists did not see off this many, or the few other fascist dictatorships like Spain, Chile etc;

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Fortunately there are enough sane people in this country we wont be swerving commie left or Nazi right any day soon. The thought of hero worshipping any system of people management that kills so many is just plain odd.