stonerblue
Well-Known Member
And all the other 'systems' like, say, capitalism?
And whilst i'm at it, can you point me too this 'established fact' you mention
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And all the other 'systems' like, say, capitalism?
And whilst i'm at it, can you point me too this 'established fact' you mention
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,710
If you want to travel back into the depths of time and add up every murder committed in every nation,And all the other 'systems' like, say, capitalism?
then yes, your premise might carry some weight. Communism is a relatively recent phenomenon, Capitalism
has been the natural progression of society's natural evolution, even without any form of structured governance,
and has been in existence since we developed as humans, so yes there will be more, but it's disingenuous to compare.
facists?
are they against faces in general or just certain types of face?
was facism invented by adolf zitler?
Yes it was, assisted by Rudolf Geyeballs
Hoghead
Well-Known Member
I have have always wondered why is it ok to promote Stalin on the UK Communist Flag, a man responsible for over 20m deaths and countless lives thrust into misery, whilst you cannot go to a fancy dress party parodying a Nazi.
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
You have to assess what they were writing in the context of the historical time that they were written. Many of the advances, if not all, in relation to the improvement of the lives of working class people that we all take for granted, eminated from these ideas.
Have a look at the working conditions and pay. Child labour. Work fatalities and injury. Wages.
Do you think the Tories of that time gave a fuck?
They were dragged kicking and screaming to agree to things that we now look on as shoe ins.
Their writings created the mobilisation of a voice for working class people that up until that period was absent.
Manchester and its people who generated the great wealth gradually were treated a no better than low paid machines.
Context and the influence they exerted is why it's right to celebrate it as a politically momentous time.
The fact we are discussing it over a century later co firms that. Using how despot men manipulate an idea in horrendous ways has no correlation to what they proposed.
Unless you can find the chapter on suppression and murder that is.
Fascism by its definition sees that country as superior and always had racist undertones, if not explicit white supremacy.
Communism at its purest, albeit impossible to achieve, wants to see everyone as being equal.
Never blame the corruption of an idea on the idea. Blame men.
Have a look at the working conditions and pay. Child labour. Work fatalities and injury. Wages.
Do you think the Tories of that time gave a fuck?
They were dragged kicking and screaming to agree to things that we now look on as shoe ins.
Their writings created the mobilisation of a voice for working class people that up until that period was absent.
Manchester and its people who generated the great wealth gradually were treated a no better than low paid machines.
Context and the influence they exerted is why it's right to celebrate it as a politically momentous time.
The fact we are discussing it over a century later co firms that. Using how despot men manipulate an idea in horrendous ways has no correlation to what they proposed.
Unless you can find the chapter on suppression and murder that is.
Fascism by its definition sees that country as superior and always had racist undertones, if not explicit white supremacy.
Communism at its purest, albeit impossible to achieve, wants to see everyone as being equal.
Never blame the corruption of an idea on the idea. Blame men.
urban genie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 31,353
Haven't we had this debate 3 weeks ago already on here? with no resolution.
Two men philosophised about how a future where the world would b an egalitarian system with the wealth of the world fairly distributed. - the communist manifesto and more importantly das kapital
27 years after a country uses that belief to overthrow a despotic ruling monarchal family. - the russian revolution led where lenin install comunism based on his interpratation.
Lenin dies then in 1922 a complete **** takes over that country, rips up the previous leaders plans and sets up a completely different economic and political system that murders and opresses - not communism.
The interpretation (or ignoring) of their writtings caused some of the biggest twats in 20th century but humanity has tens of thousands of years using people writing to justify mass murder
The Yassa
The bible
The writings of Machiavelli
to name 3 have led to massive scales of death.
All of those writings can be read and used to make the world better and all can be read and used as a reason to suppress and kill
People do the bad things in this world.
Communism won't work at pressent because we are not tuned into to be completely egalitarian and good to all and any country that tries it will sucumb to the old adage of power corrupts.
Two men philosophised about how a future where the world would b an egalitarian system with the wealth of the world fairly distributed. - the communist manifesto and more importantly das kapital
27 years after a country uses that belief to overthrow a despotic ruling monarchal family. - the russian revolution led where lenin install comunism based on his interpratation.
Lenin dies then in 1922 a complete **** takes over that country, rips up the previous leaders plans and sets up a completely different economic and political system that murders and opresses - not communism.
The interpretation (or ignoring) of their writtings caused some of the biggest twats in 20th century but humanity has tens of thousands of years using people writing to justify mass murder
The Yassa
The bible
The writings of Machiavelli
to name 3 have led to massive scales of death.
All of those writings can be read and used to make the world better and all can be read and used as a reason to suppress and kill
People do the bad things in this world.
Communism won't work at pressent because we are not tuned into to be completely egalitarian and good to all and any country that tries it will sucumb to the old adage of power corrupts.
Ancient Citizen
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,710
Well, without trawling the net, off the top of my head Stalin was responsible for over 20 million deaths in Russia alone,And whilst i'm at it, can you point me too this 'established fact' you mention
Mao many more. Fascism was originally Italian inspired, taken on by Germany, and since by a few South American
dictatorships, the totals murdered by this creed are far less.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
If you want to travel back into the depths of time and add up every murder committed in every nation,
then yes, your premise might carry some weight. Communism is a relatively recent phenomenon, Capitalism
has been the natural progression of society's natural evolution, even without any form of structured governance,
and has been in existence since we developed as humans, so yes there will be more, but it's disingenuous to compare.
hahah, 'disingenuous' ??
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
Haven't we had this debate 3 weeks ago already on here? with no resolution.
Two men philosophised about how a future where the world would b an egalitarian system with the wealth of the world fairly distributed. - the communist manifesto and more importantly das kapital
27 years after a country uses that belief to overthrow a despotic ruling monarchal family. - the russian revolution led where lenin install comunism based on his interpratation.
Lenin dies then in 1922 a complete **** takes over that country, rips up the previous leaders plans and sets up a completely different economic and political system that murders and opresses - not communism.
The interpretation (or ignoring) of their writtings caused some of the biggest twats in 20th century but humanity has tens of thousands of years using people writing to justify mass murder
The Yassa
The bible
The writings of Machiavelli
to name 3 have led to massive scales of death.
All of those writings can be read and used to make the world better and all can be read and used as a reason to suppress and kill
People do the bad things in this world.
Communism won't work at pressent because we are not tuned into to be completely egalitarian and good to all and any country that tries it will sucumb to the old adage of power corrupts.
Fantastic post genie
Magicpole
Well-Known Member
Well, without trawling the net, off the top of my head Stalin was responsible for over 20 million deaths in Russia alone,
Mao many more. Fascism was originally Italian inspired, taken on by Germany, and since by a few South American
dictatorships, the totals murdered by this creed are far less.
Stalin and Mao.
Not the ideas promoted by Marx and Engles.