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It's amazing how England win any series really...

Cook took over as captain Aug 2012. From then till now the following players have averaged over 50 (min. 10 tests):

Hussey (75.28), Smith (64.83), Voges (61.87), Chanderpaul (61), Sangakkara (60.19), Williamson (57.59), Gunaratne (56.87), De Villiers (54.57), Handscomb (54.27), Khawaja (54.18), Pujara (53.98), R Taylor (53.44), Root (53.21), Kohli (52.81), Khan (52.74).

The top 10 English batsmen in the same period (min 10 tests):

Root (53.21), Cook (43.76), Bairstow (41.58), Ballance (37.45), Pietersen (36.83), Bell (34.92), Ali (34.56), Stokes (34.39), Prior (34.36), Trott (34.08).

Others: Buttler (31.36), Robson (30.54), Westley* (30.50), Woakes (29.55), Compton (28.70), Carberry (28.10), Hales (27.20), Jennings (24.50), Lyth (20.38), Vince (19.27), Duckett (15.71), Malan (8.75).

Firstly, the English averages are abysmal. Secondly, notice in both how many of those players are still playing at test level...

Compared to the same period 10 years ago (Aug 02-07), you get:

Average over 50:

Hussey (79.85), Ponting (72.38), Kirsten (64.72), Kallis (64.62), Yousuf (64.31), Dravid (62.42), Waugh (60.31), Lara (60.01), Sangakkara (57.19), Thorpe (56.37), Hayden (54.94), Pietersen(52), Inzamam (51.5), Jayawardene (50.79), and you had Tendulkar, Kohli, Sehwag, Clarke, Lehmann, Amla, G Smith, Rahane and Laxman all over 48.

Top 10 English:

Thorpe (56.37), Pietersen (52), Vaughan (45.25), Trescothick (44.8), Cook (44.4), Collingwood (43.5), Prior (42.77), Bell (41.41), Strauss (41.36), Flintoff (38.95).

You can see how our batsmen back then pretty much all averaged over 40, that was the bench mark, now you're lucky if they can make 30/35. It shows how much their standards dropped by the end, but also just how county cricket is completely failing to bring through players of the required standard. Even globally the comparison is pretty poor.

How do we rectify this decline in test cricket and who can we turn to in England who can actually bat at 50 average, 60 SR like the best?
 
BJL_City said:
It's amazing how England win any series really...

Cook took over as captain Aug 2012. From then till now the following players have averaged over 50 (min. 10 tests):

Hussey (75.28), Smith (64.83), Voges (61.87), Chanderpaul (61), Sangakkara (60.19), Williamson (57.59), Gunaratne (56.87), De Villiers (54.57), Handscomb (54.27), Khawaja (54.18), Pujara (53.98), R Taylor (53.44), Root (53.21), Kohli (52.81), Khan (52.74).

The top 10 English batsmen in the same period (min 10 tests):

Root (53.21), Cook (43.76), Bairstow (41.58), Ballance (37.45), Pietersen (36.83), Bell (34.92), Ali (34.56), Stokes (34.39), Prior (34.36), Trott (34.08).

Others: Buttler (31.36), Robson (30.54), Westley* (30.50), Woakes (29.55), Compton (28.70), Carberry (28.10), Hales (27.20), Jennings (24.50), Lyth (20.38), Vince (19.27), Duckett (15.71), Malan (8.75).

Firstly, the English averages are abysmal. Secondly, notice in both how many of those players are still playing at test level...

Compared to the same period 10 years ago (Aug 02-07), you get:

Average over 50:

Hussey (79.85), Ponting (72.38), Kirsten (64.72), Kallis (64.62), Yousuf (64.31), Dravid (62.42), Waugh (60.31), Lara (60.01), Sangakkara (57.19), Thorpe (56.37), Hayden (54.94), Pietersen(52), Inzamam (51.5), Jayawardene (50.79), and you had Tendulkar, Kohli, Sehwag, Clarke, Lehmann, Amla, G Smith, Rahane and Laxman all over 48.

Top 10 English:

Thorpe (56.37), Pietersen (52), Vaughan (45.25), Trescothick (44.8), Cook (44.4), Collingwood (43.5), Prior (42.77), Bell (41.41), Strauss (41.36), Flintoff (38.95).

You can see how our batsmen back then pretty much all averaged over 40, that was the bench mark, now you're lucky if they can make 30/35. It shows how much their standards dropped by the end, but also just how county cricket is completely failing to bring through players of the required standard. Even globally the comparison is pretty poor.

How do we rectify this decline in test cricket and who can we turn to in England who can actually bat at 50 average, 60 SR like the best?
Click to expand...


Would it not be a more fair comparison if you went country for country in Ave, Eng vs RoW is hardly fair. Also worth noting that we have had the most balanced attack of all the test teams and bat very deep (Ali being a prime example) Stokes and Ali having averages of over 35 batting 6/7/8 is actually probably worth more when they bat with 9/10 Jack
 
discopop said:
Would it not be a more fair comparison if you went country for country in Ave, Eng vs RoW is hardly fair. Also worth noting that we have had the most balanced attack of all the test teams and bat very deep (Ali being a prime example) Stokes and Ali having averages of over 35 batting 6/7/8 is actually probably worth more when they bat with 9/10 Jack
Click to expand...

not really, it's about our players being top class players. Stokes and Ali wouldn't have to bat most of the time with 9/10 jack if neither got themselves out. Just a lack of consistent quality.
 
BJL_City said:
not really, it's about our players being top class players. Stokes and Ali wouldn't have to bat most of the time with 9/10 jack if neither got themselves out. Just a lack of consistent quality.
Click to expand...


They are both classed as all rounders that's why their average is very good for where they bat, England are very handily placed batting from 4 to 9 (Woakes to come back) it's 2 and 3 where we struggle.
 
BJL_City said:
It's amazing how England win any series really...

Cook took over as captain Aug 2012. From then till now the following players have averaged over 50 (min. 10 tests):

Hussey (75.28), Smith (64.83), Voges (61.87), Chanderpaul (61), Sangakkara (60.19), Williamson (57.59), Gunaratne (56.87), De Villiers (54.57), Handscomb (54.27), Khawaja (54.18), Pujara (53.98), R Taylor (53.44), Root (53.21), Kohli (52.81), Khan (52.74).

The top 10 English batsmen in the same period (min 10 tests):

Root (53.21), Cook (43.76), Bairstow (41.58), Ballance (37.45), Pietersen (36.83), Bell (34.92), Ali (34.56), Stokes (34.39), Prior (34.36), Trott (34.08).

Others: Buttler (31.36), Robson (30.54), Westley* (30.50), Woakes (29.55), Compton (28.70), Carberry (28.10), Hales (27.20), Jennings (24.50), Lyth (20.38), Vince (19.27), Duckett (15.71), Malan (8.75).

Firstly, the English averages are abysmal. Secondly, notice in both how many of those players are still playing at test level...

Compared to the same period 10 years ago (Aug 02-07), you get:

Average over 50:

Hussey (79.85), Ponting (72.38), Kirsten (64.72), Kallis (64.62), Yousuf (64.31), Dravid (62.42), Waugh (60.31), Lara (60.01), Sangakkara (57.19), Thorpe (56.37), Hayden (54.94), Pietersen(52), Inzamam (51.5), Jayawardene (50.79), and you had Tendulkar, Kohli, Sehwag, Clarke, Lehmann, Amla, G Smith, Rahane and Laxman all over 48.

Top 10 English:

Thorpe (56.37), Pietersen (52), Vaughan (45.25), Trescothick (44.8), Cook (44.4), Collingwood (43.5), Prior (42.77), Bell (41.41), Strauss (41.36), Flintoff (38.95).

You can see how our batsmen back then pretty much all averaged over 40, that was the bench mark, now you're lucky if they can make 30/35. It shows how much their standards dropped by the end, but also just how county cricket is completely failing to bring through players of the required standard. Even globally the comparison is pretty poor.

How do we rectify this decline in test cricket and who can we turn to in England who can actually bat at 50 average, 60 SR like the best?
Click to expand...
No DRS back in the day. Makes a big difference to how players bat nowerdays. You'd regularly see batsmen just pad out the spinners. They can't do that anymore. Neither can they just get forwards knowing the umpire wouldn't give them out. It's not all about stats anymore. It's more about playing the situation. Which why even though their stats aren't world class, I'd play the likes of hayles and butler in this present team every time. They can affect the game much much more than a mullan or Jennings. Averaging 35/45 is as good as 45/55 10 years ago - in my opinion as an ex pro. Good analysis though mate
For me there's not better team on home soil in England if we went
Cook
Hayles
Westley/Balance/an other (problem position)
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Butler
Ali
Woakes/Roland J/Rashid
Broad
Anderson
 
discopop said:
They are both classed as all rounders that's why their average is very good for where they bat, England are very handily placed batting from 4 to 9 (Woakes to come back) it's 2 and 3 where we struggle.
Click to expand...

both are talented enough to average comfortably over 40, stokes nearing 50. they just lack application, steel and consistency.
 
BJL_City said:
both are talented enough to average comfortably over 40, stokes nearing 50. they just lack application, steel and consistency.
Click to expand...

When was the last time you saw a non wicket keeping all rounder Ave 50? Seriously it never happens Botham who is seen as the best England all rounder only averaged mid 30's
 
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