Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[lancs blue]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

But how is Pellegrini expected to give Richards a run of games when he plays 2 games then hes out for 3 weeks. He isn't reliable and you never know what you are going to get. Lescott just isn't at the required level.

Rodwell is similar to Richards, I want them both to do well but injuries are probably going to dog their career.

Agree on Baines i'd have him on 01.01.2014. He is probably the only available English player that could improve us.

Like i said if it wasn't for the homegrown rule my opinion is none of those English players mentioned would be at our club.

I'd have had Lallana and Caulker by now.

So would i mate, i just dont think Pellagrini is interested at all in English players, and why should he, he will be off in 2-3 seasons.

He doesnt grab me as someone who thinks further than the current season.

Ironically that was an accusation often levelled at Mancini on here by his detractors. If Pellegrini has bought into the holistic policy he should be looking to the future.

The homegrown 'rule' isn't much of a 'rule'. You can name 0 homegrown players if you want, you just can't name more than 17 squad members in that case. but if you have 4 or 5 super-talented U21 players then they don't have to be listed. But remember we currently have 10 players who can be registered as homegrown (Hart, Wright, Lescott, Boyata, Richards, Clichy, Milner, Rodwell, Guidetti, Nimely) so even if we sold 6 of them we could still name a 21-man squad without having to include Nastasic, Lopes, and any U21 prodigies we might sign on that list.

That only applies in the PL, for UEFA comps U-21s have to have been at the club for a minimum of 2 years before they can be included in the B-list, otherwise they go in the A-list with its built-in home-grown restrictions.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

This isn't a Pellegrini reply as such, but sometimes I wonder about the 25-man squad system and the maximum number of imports, which is seventeen. It's been mentioned elsewhere that there are very few English players of the required standard, this being reflected in the lack of quality in the England national squad. This is the reason that Pellegrini is reluctant to select them, and he is correct as our locals are either injured, underperforming or are, at best in our powerful squad, fringe players. We don't possess an English Merlin or a Kun for example. If we did, I'm sure such players would feature.

I've sometimes wondered what it would be like if we were to ditch the home grown quota and just rely on a 17 man overseas squad, but only with players of the highest ability. The rest of the bench squad could come from a core of EDS lads who would see their path to the top opened up with the removal of players who are there only to make the squad look acceptable to the EPL chiefs. With a quality 17 man squad, the manager would have to play a strong team in each game with just one or two changes per game to rest players. With a reduced squad, the option of making mass changes as at Sunderland would be taken away from Pellegrini, and this may well have brought home the three points we should have expected from this fixture.

 

[chris85mcfc]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

This isn't a Pellegrini reply as such, but sometimes I wonder about the 25-man squad system and the maximum number of imports, which is seventeen. It's been mentioned elsewhere that there are very few English players of the required standard, this being reflected in the lack of quality in the England national squad. This is the reason that Pellegrini is reluctant to select them, and he is correct as our locals are either injured, underperforming or are, at best in our powerful squad, fringe players. We don't possess an English Merlin or a Kun for example. If we did, I'm sure such players would feature.

I've sometimes wondered what it would be like if we were to ditch the home grown quota and just rely on a 17 man overseas squad, but only with players of the highest ability. The rest of the bench squad could come from a core of EDS lads who would see their path to the top opened up with the removal of players who are there only to make the squad look acceptable to the EPL chiefs. With a quality 17 man squad, the manager would have to play a strong team in each game with just one or two changes per game to rest players. With a reduced squad, the option of making mass changes as at Sunderland would be taken away from Pellegrini, and this may well have brought home the three points we should have expected from this fixture.

Good post and to a certain extent that could work. But, look at the Sunderland game for example. Of that 17 man squad we would have had Silva, Kompany, Nastasic and Fernandinho out. Which leaves you with 13 players and a few EDS kids.

Has its merits and its drawbacks. I'd much rather see a few younger lads given a game from time to time, regardless of their birth place.

 

[BlueTG]

Re: Clueless manager

Not clueless just a nice attacking minded manager who can not set his teams up to defend..

So a slightly better Mark Hughes then?

 

[supercity88]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I must say I think a lot of players in and around our squad have had an easy ride for far too long. They might be happy winning the FA Cup then the League and then rest on their laurels and put no effort in but we need more. Players have been poor since the league winning campaign. Through injury or otherwise most have failed to reach the peaks of the 2011/12 season, and most have been inconsistent. You have to look at our key players and say who will replace them if they are injured? Silva you would say Nasri/Jovetic, Aguero you have Negredo/Dzeko, Yaya? Kompany? We laugh at Cleverly, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck but the fact is they have won the league too. So how is this true? Getting a system perfected is one part, having the correct mentality another, the final piece is having willing and able players to perform within parts one and two. We don't. Aside from Richards and Milner there are very few players who when called upon will put their heart and soul into a performance and perform. I would say Lescott, Kolorov, Rodwell, Garcia are no worse than the Rag players I listed, but put them on a pitch away at Sunderland and I know who would be more likely to perform and get a result.

 

[Bluep*ss]

Re: Clueless manager

Not clueless just a nice attacking minded manager who can not set his teams up to defend..

Pellegrini refused to blame the referee for the loss, despite Bardsley appearing to foul James Milner in the build-up to the goal.
He said: “It doesn’t matter whether it was a foul or not because the referee decides what is a foul and what isn’t – he decided it wasn’t and that’s all that counts.
“I don’t like to blame defeats on moments like that – I think we deserved to win and we also deserved to win the other games we’ve lost this season away but the fact is we didn’t and that’s what worries me.
“The Premier League is very close and there are six or seven teams trying to win the title and there are lots of games to play – we are playing well away from home but perhaps we just need a little bit more luck.”
DO WE NEED MORE LUCK??

 

[Ray78]

Re: Clueless manager

I was under the impression we replaced mancini with pelle, to make the next step, at the moment we have gone backwards.

We have spent 100 million on top of our already mega squad, yet have 4 points from 18 away from home, I would argue a man on the street would get a far better return with the players at our disposal, lets be right sunderland, Cardiff, villa and stoke possess about two players between them who would remotely interest us.

The problems we encountered last season have appeared again, but with even worse results, I cannot believe that finding a solution to teams parking the bus wasn't discussed with pelle during negotiations, and I was sure we would have seen a far better return than suffering the same old failings.

Rotating the squad is fine, but it has to be done correctly, and sometimes while taking a calculated gamble, but playing the best team against a woeful cska, and then ending up with the side we put out against sunderland was just poor judgement and left our title challenge not in tatters but potentially 3 defeats from being over.

Could it be argued pelle's contract is weighted towards champions league, so from a personal point of view it takes priority, also the message from the Spanish duo that they see managers as a 2 year cycle worries me, I would be happier for a manager to be laying long term foundations as opposed to a huge short term contract where he knows he will not be in the job for too long.

For all the money spent the squad is woefully short of quality in some areas, and we are always one or two injuries away from being mediocre, which for our resources is laughable and I certainly don't buy into the we have the best squad argument, although I do think we have the best 11.

MP deserves time and support, but he needs to be doing a hell of a lot better than he is doing, we don't need to settle for average this isn't 2007, we have everything in place and should have a team and a manager that reflects our 2013 status.

This is exactly what Khaldoon said in his post season interview and you are bang on the money in everything else you say.
I guarantee the worries of many on here and many of those who are not can be extended to boardroom level.There is no way in hell they will look at our away form and not be seriously concerned.

We are in the latter stages of the Champions League in Pellegrini's first season in charge which is one of our targets.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Clueless manager

Not clueless just a nice attacking minded manager who can not set his teams up to defend..

So a slightly better Mark Hughes then?

He can he just chooses not to. So inept rather than clueless. Or is he working for the dark side...

 

[Marvin]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I must say I think a lot of players in and around our squad have had an easy ride for far too long. They might be happy winning the FA Cup then the League and then rest on their laurels and put no effort in but we need more. Players have been poor since the league winning campaign. Through injury or otherwise most have failed to reach the peaks of the 2011/12 season, and most have been inconsistent. You have to look at our key players and say who will replace them if they are injured? Silva you would say Nasri/Jovetic, Aguero you have Negredo/Dzeko, Yaya? Kompany? We laugh at Cleverly, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck but the fact is they have won the league too. So how is this true? Getting a system perfected is one part, having the correct mentality another, the final piece is having willing and able players to perform within parts one and two. We don't. Aside from Richards and Milner there are very few players who when called upon will put their heart and soul into a performance and perform. I would say Lescott, Kolorov, Rodwell, Garcia are no worse than the Rag players I listed, but put them on a pitch away at Sunderland and I know who would be more likely to perform and get a result.

Yet Lescott and Kolarov have won trophies with us. I think you maybe a bit unfair on them

Mentality is very important and this is what will be tested in the coming weeks. I think by the end of December we will be back

 

[fathellensbellend]

Re: Clueless manager

I was under the impression we replaced mancini with pelle, to make the next step, at the moment we have gone backwards.

We have spent 100 million on top of our already mega squad, yet have 4 points from 18 away from home, I would argue a man on the street would get a far better return with the players at our disposal, lets be right sunderland, Cardiff, villa and stoke possess about two players between them who would remotely interest us.

The problems we encountered last season have appeared again, but with even worse results, I cannot believe that finding a solution to teams parking the bus wasn't discussed with pelle during negotiations, and I was sure we would have seen a far better return than suffering the same old failings.

Rotating the squad is fine, but it has to be done correctly, and sometimes while taking a calculated gamble, but playing the best team against a woeful cska, and then ending up with the side we put out against sunderland was just poor judgement and left our title challenge not in tatters but potentially 3 defeats from being over.

Could it be argued pelle's contract is weighted towards champions league, so from a personal point of view it takes priority, also the message from the Spanish duo that they see managers as a 2 year cycle worries me, I would be happier for a manager to be laying long term foundations as opposed to a huge short term contract where he knows he will not be in the job for too long.

For all the money spent the squad is woefully short of quality in some areas, and we are always one or two injuries away from being mediocre, which for our resources is laughable and I certainly don't buy into the we have the best squad argument, although I do think we have the best 11.

MP deserves time and support, but he needs to be doing a hell of a lot better than he is doing, we don't need to settle for average this isn't 2007, we have everything in place and should have a team and a manager that reflects our 2013 status.

This is exactly what Khaldoon said in his post season interview and you are bang on the money in everything else you say.
I guarantee the worries of many on here and many of those who are not can be extended to boardroom level.There is no way in hell they will look at our away form and not be seriously concerned.

We are in the latter stages of the Champions League in Pellegrini's first season in charge which is one of our targets.

I cannot read anything at all into our champions league group, we have beaten 2 poor sides, and got outplayed by the best team in the world, hindered by some baffling tactics.

of course it isn't all bad, the goals scored column is excellent, I just want to see some nous in beating modest teams away In the premier league, something this squad with injuries should achieve.