EDS future opportunities and progression?

Discussion in 'EDS and Academy Forum' started by twosips, 10 Apr 2016.

  1. Cobra

    Cobra

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    Tyreke Wilson, and he won't be 18 until December. I don't think he's anywhere near ready for first team football.
     
  2. twosips

    twosips

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    Sarmiento was a nice player at LB too but he's had a torrid time with injuries. Very similar to Angelino.
     
  3. balotelli's back pocket

    balotelli's back pocket

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    Where do we all stand on Sancho then? His loss or ours?

    Personally, i think we dodged a bullet. If he isn't willing to wait for his chance when he is 17, and refuses to train, imagine how bad his attitude would be if he wasn't playing every week at Sterling/Sane's age. Always gonna get more of a chance at Dortmund, they are not on the same level as us and the Bundesliga is a lot more forgiving than the Prem IMO.

    Even if he becomes a top player, which i doubt he will now, i wouldn't regret it. Can't be being held to ransom by 17 year olds, no matter how good they might be in the youth team. If you're good enough, you're old enough, but Sancho wasn't good enough just yet. He didn't even wait till january, even though he would be part of the squad.

    Brahim and Foden have their heads screwed on and at least one of them, if not both, will make it big here. I'm certain. We don't need to worry about EDS progression, IMO. If we produce one player good enough for the side every few years, that's good enough for me. Right now, we have a couple, after just 3 years. Not bad.
     
  4. domalino

    domalino

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    Sorry, but the idea we dodged a bullet is stupid. Sancho didn't move because he wasn't willing to wait his chance, he moved because he knew he wasn't going to get one with Sterling, Sané, Jesus, Aguero & Sanchez ahead of him, and every game he plays for Dortmund while his former teammates line up for the EDS validates him further.


    As for attitude, the German media with v. good contacts at Dortmund have said he didn't refuse to train and that he was simply absent because both clubs knew the deal was going to happen. I've never heard a single bad thing said about Sancho's attitude before or since so I'm inclined to believe it, but even if it were true, it's literally the same thing Sterling did to arrive here and he's been a model pro since.

    If Sancho had stayed, and gotten opportunities which lead to him playing well enough to complain about game time, I suspect we'd have sold him for 40m, 50m+, or we'd have played him more.

    He probably will, he's quite clearly talented enough, and his move has only made that more likely. Germany has a much more forgiving culture around footballers, Pep said he was granted much more personal privacy there than in Spain or England, and developing without the target on his back of being England's next big hope will only do him well. Dortmund are a fantastic side, with a proven track record of competing for major honours with young players, which is why young players flock there.

    I don't see why he should have waited until January. He's already playing in Dortmund's first team, and as far as he knew Alexis Sanchez was about to rock up.


    The Bundesliga is not more forgiving, that's just stereotypical english-centric fan's perspective, and I'm going to assume it's not based on years of watching German football. I don't remember Kevin De Bruyne being #exposed by the Premier League TM's superior game.



    City's own research says that 85% of CL semi-finalists were playing league football at 17, and yet we haven't played a 17 year old in the league for over 10 years, Sturridge in 2007. What message does that send to our own players?

    We're conducting & publicising research which is telling them to leave. Don't be angry if they follo

    Hopefully Diaz & Brahim make it big here, they could easily not, I suspect they have simply been convinced to stay longer because Brahim is managed by Guardiola's brother and Phil is a lifelong blue.

    Finally, before you get cocky about producing a couple of first team players "after 3 years", perhaps wait until either one has made a league debut, and remember that we've produced not a single first team regular in over a decade, and that talented players are leaving because of that record.
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2017
  5. Nelly's Left Foot

    Nelly's Left Foot

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    Well said that man. I am personally disappointed that Sancho left but fully understand why he did. I didn't believe all that stuff about simply refusing to train after not going on the pre season tour and I hope he goes onto great things in his career.
     
  6. balotelli's back pocket

    balotelli's back pocket

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    I said produce players good enough for the first team, not players ready for the first team at this minute. Brahim is in the squad for the spain under 21's at just turned 18. For a player based outside of spain, that's insane. And we all know how good foden is. He has been getting more media attention than sancho ever has, and the club will be under a lot of pressure to get this right.

    Also, i do think the bundesliga is more forgiving for young players, mainly due to the tactics employed. Pace, work rate and stamina rather than power and experience, and often the forward players, especially at dortmund, thrive, due to the (imo) lack of defensive organisation of many teams. Look at RB leipzig, dortmund, hoffenheim etc. Takes a lot less intelligence to play in those teams imo. There has to be a reason why young players thrive in that league. I don't buy into the whole "young players just need chances" thing when it comes to 16/17 year olds.

    I base my opinion on him not training on Pep's words, straight from his mouth at a press conference. Also, of those 85% of footballers, how many were playing in the top leagues, for one of the top clubs? You said it yourself, the last time we played a 17 year old in the league was in 2007, before the takeover. That's because 99% of 17 year olds are not physically or mentally ready for premier league football. Would i have liked brahim or foden to get a few more minutes? Maybe. But they both would have played against wolves if it wasn't for injury and foden's international duty (which btw, surely is less important than a first team start?)

    One player has left that was good enough for the level we want to be at. Sancho. And i think he was wrong. We didn't sign sanchez in the end, but even if we had, he is 10+ years older than sancho. People were right to criticize tyrese campbell, i don't see too much of a difference here. How many 17 year olds play in the prem?

    Also, if sancho was so desperate to leave, surely a few sub appearances, like you would expect, would not be enough to sate him? Looks like he wants to be starting games. Fair enough, it's his life and his career and if he proves me wrong, so be it. Shows how little i know. But i think he, or more importantly his agent, has miscalculated this. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he didn't really want to leave, but he burnt his bridges. Again, pure speculation on my part.

    I suppose i am naturally dismissive and somewhat unimpressed with sancho, but it stems from immense disappointment. He has unbelievable natural talent, and by all accounts he was happy here. So it came as a body blow when he suddenly turned on us. I believe the club and the manager when they say we shook hands on a deal (which sterling never did) and that sancho then failed to turn up for training (which, contrary to mythical belief, raz never did either. He was off ill for one day. Sancho didn't turn up for weeks!)
     
  7. domalino

    domalino

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    German football is far more tactically complex than English football, as exemplified by the rash of young German managers popping up all over the place and doing things like getting the poorest side in Championship into the Premier League like it's a piece of piss.

    Just saying it doesn't require intelligence to play for teams like Leipzig is absolutely laughable, Ralph Hasenhuttl's coaching is about as close in complexity to Guardiola as possible, miles more complex than any premier league side we'll face this season.

    It's pretty obvious your argument is based on no actual knowledge of the league you're dismissing, and so your opinion that Sancho was wrong to move there has absolutely no value whatsoever, sorry.

    Perhaps go and watch some German football, watch Sancho play some games there, look at some of the world class talent coming out of Germany before spouting off about how bad a career move it is compared to playing in the PL2.

    Also, I think you'll find that on top of two players in 2 years, Campbell and Sancho, leaving and Tom Dele-Bashiru very nearly going the same way, there are more contract disputes on the horizon and will continue to be until there's a reason for players to stay here past 17 years old.
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2017
  8. balotelli's back pocket

    balotelli's back pocket

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    I never said the tactics aren't clever or the manager's aren't quality. I said it doesn't take, in my opinion, as intelligent a player to play in those systems. I'm gonna guess that you watch far more german footy than me, so if you think i am wrong about that, i probably am. It is just the impression i get from watching teams like RB leipzig, where a lot of young, fit players play at breakneck speed, or klopp's gegenpressing, which doesn't work nearly as well over here as it did in germany. When i refer to it being easier to play in germany, i mean it's easier to play in the bundesliga than for city, although i happen to think any young player will struggle in the prem, which is why we don't see many.

    Also not sure what part of my comments makes it obvious i know nothing about jadon sancho. No need to be so defensive, honestly. I didn't mean to come off as cocky or all-knowing, which is why i said in my 'opinion'.

    Anyway, i didn't intend to get into an argument on german football, but i'll accept my comments could be seen as disparaging. I apologize for that.
     
  9. domalino

    domalino

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    I didn't want to get into a discussion on german football either so I'll sum up briefly the situation as I believe it is.

    Sancho is one of the most talented players in the world in his age group, the best player at the u17 Euro's, probably would have gotten the same accolade at the World Cup if he stayed there.

    There is no upside to him leaving, no bullet dodged, only a potentially world class player or big future transfer fee walking out the door for next to nothing.

    On top of that loss, it is incredibly damaging to the academy as a whole that he so publicly left because of a perceived lack of opportunities at this club, and that a Champions League/Bundesliga challenging team with a worldwide reputation for taking promising youngsters and making them world class players decided he was good enough for first team football immediately.
     
  10. balotelli's back pocket

    balotelli's back pocket

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    Can't say i disagree with any of that. Just need foden to make it, would do wonders. Still, no use crossing fingers. Pep, foden and everyone inbetween need to work hard to make it happen, whilst still being successful on the pitch.
     

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