FA Youth Cup 2014/15 Thread

[BigOscar]

Agree on potential. Don't really think Angelinno very easy on the eye Billy Whizz type of performer and good left foot attributes but I hate writing this but my heart just tells me he won't be good enough and too small. U21 Hiwulia Cole Evans Lawlor Facey. U18 Barker Bryan Tosin. U17 Nemane Wood. U16 & schoolboys Bashiru Nemechie brothers Patching Foden all I'm told signed by Cassell ??? There is obviously some I will have missed but it stacks up that Jim Cassell left one hell of a legacy and despite money facilities and efforts it isn't close to being matched yet in terms of development. We haven't seen anyone sustain a career since he left and we arent even doing what the rags did for years by promoting individuals that aren't quite good enough , give em a quick debut in an easy game, tell the World they are brilliant then sell them a month later for 750,000 grand with add ons. ( higginbotham Appleton Cooke Healy Murdoch Curtis and more). The only one I think we have done that with is Huws. And to think we thought via listening to Marwood that we had "found one" in Abdul Razzak??? 2 years later 4 clubs later, 2,sackings later he can't get in Doncasters team? I'm not even gonna mention Rekik Lopes Suarez and Pozo. Let's hope we can speed up and be the best in youth development again. We have the resources and we've done it twice before in two different eras without a penny being spent hardly.

I struggle to believe that you genuinely think our best u21 prospects are those you mention.

They all seem to have something in common and it certainly isn't ability. Has Bluemoon always had this collection of anglophiles or is it new?

 

[BigOscar]

On a fairly depressing note, a fairly decent article in the DM about what's happened to the youth cup finalists from the past 5 years. There certainly doesn't seem to be much correlation between doing well in the youth cup and going on to play for the first team, or any team for that matter. The critera for success at U18 level and first team level are just so different. Encouraging for us though is that our U18 team isn't at all set up like a usual good youth team, with far less emphasis on early physical developers and far more on technical ability.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3058821/Paul-Pogba-starred-2011-Youth-Cup-Finals-Manchester-United-starlets-make-big-rest-final-2010.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... paign=1490</a>

 

[sam-caddick]

I really hope some of those English lads Chelsea have get an opportunity soon.

Looking at Charlie Colkett, if he was in any other academy, including ours, he would be getting game time next season, he looks a Toni Kroos in the making.

A few of those Chelsea English players will go on and become senior internationals in my opinion.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I really hope some of those English lads Chelsea have get an opportunity soon.

Looking at Charlie Colkett, if he was in any other academy, including ours, he would be getting game time next season, he looks a Toni Kroos in the making.

A few of those Chelsea English players will go on and become senior internationals in my opinion.

I think I've agreed on this with you before ?, but he is by far chelsea's best player imo, didn't rely on strength and was an intelligent passer. If he doesn't make it in the prem it would be such a shame. With players like, him, Bamford, Loftus cheek, they should all be playing for chelsea soon. They're all english aswel which is great !

 

[sam-caddick]

I really hope some of those English lads Chelsea have get an opportunity soon.

Looking at Charlie Colkett, if he was in any other academy, including ours, he would be getting game time next season, he looks a Toni Kroos in the making.

A few of those Chelsea English players will go on and become senior internationals in my opinion.

I think I've agreed on this with you before ?, but he is by far chelsea's best player imo, didn't rely on strength and was an intelligent passer. If he doesn't make it in the prem it would be such a shame. With players like, him, Bamford, Loftus cheek, they should all be playing for chelsea soon. They're all english aswel which is great !

Yeah we have shared comments on him last week mate.

England have been crying out for a dominant Regista type of player and finally we look like we may have one in the making.

I am just not convinced Jose is the right manager for Chelsea if they want to promote some youth, Jose has promised Loftus Cheek game time next season so we will see.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I really hope some of those English lads Chelsea have get an opportunity soon.

Looking at Charlie Colkett, if he was in any other academy, including ours, he would be getting game time next season, he looks a Toni Kroos in the making.

A few of those Chelsea English players will go on and become senior internationals in my opinion.

I think I've agreed on this with you before ?, but he is by far chelsea's best player imo, didn't rely on strength and was an intelligent passer. If he doesn't make it in the prem it would be such a shame. With players like, him, Bamford, Loftus cheek, they should all be playing for chelsea soon. They're all english aswel which is great !

Yeah we have shared comments on him last week mate.

England have been crying out for a dominant Regista type of player and finally we look like we may have one in the making.

I am just not convinced Jose is the right manager for Chelsea if they want to promote some youth, Jose has promised Loftus Cheek game time next season so we will see.

I dont think he will give them a chance. Its such ashame as any where else they would be playing or in the first team squad. Its like bamford at the minute ripping up the championship, but I just can't see him getting a chance. Hell just forever be out on loan. The one player I think chelsea ruined because of it is Josh Mcheachren he had everything and should be around their first team.

 

[yerwot?]

. The critera for success at U18 level and first team level are just so different. Encouraging for us though is that our U18 team isn't at all set up like a usual good youth team, with far less emphasis on early physical developers and far more on technical ability.

The rare occasion when a Messi type player surfaces is a fluke imo, a one in a million chance.
Spotting a rough diamond is incredibly difficult, much much harder than producing a successful youth team. Even when a lad shows great potential, he still needs the best coaches to prepare him for the top level. Whether we have them at the Academy, only time will tell.
It goes against accepted logic to say last night's result was not a big deal, but in the over-all scheme of things it wasn't. It was satisfying in that we didn't freeze, and showed plenty of character on a big stage against a very powerful CFC. So many kids fall by the wayside despite having great technical ability but nowhere near the physicality they will eventually achieve as they mature. If City buck the trend and persevere with them, even though the team is not 'winning trophies' then it can only benefit us in the long term. Imho.

 

[Centurions]

Because of the size (and supposedly age) differences I did a bit of research on the two teams partly to also see who was eligible for next years competition. Surprisingly there doesn't seem to be any real differences in ages since we've each got 5 out of the starting 11 eligible for next season and 3 out the subs for us and 4 for Chelsea. It looks like Chelsea either got lucky or have cherry picked anyone technically competent whilst also being a big bugger. The criteria is anyone born on or after 01/09/1997.

Name, DOB, Age on 01/09/15, Eligible

Haug 06/12/98 16 Y
Maffeo 12/07/97 18 N
Humphreys-Grant 22/08/98 17 Y
Adarabioyo 24/09/97 17 Y
Angelino 04/01/97 18 N
Bryan 01/11/96 18 N
Nemane 26/09/97 17 Y
Wood 12/02/98 17 Y
Iheanacho 03/10/96 18 N
Celina 09/09/96 18 N
Barker 04/10/96 18 N

Garcia 02/01/98 17 Y
Buckley 14/03/98 17 Y
Albinson 15/10/96 18 N
Tattum 03/09/96 18 N
Dilrosun 22/06/98 17 Y

Just out of interest -

Denzeil Boadu 20/02/97 18 N
Thierry Ambrose 28/03/97 18 N

Chelsea -
Collins 18/02/97 18 N
Aina 08/10/96 18 N
Tomori 19/12/97 17 Y
Clarke-Salter 22/09/97 17 Y
DaSilva 22/04/98 17 Y
Colkett 04/09/96 18 N
Abraham 02/10/97 17 Y
Musonda 15/10/96 18 N
Solanke 14/09/97 17 Y
Brown 07/01/97 18 N
Boga 03/01/97 18 N

Sammut 26/09/97 17 Y
Ali 13/10/97 17 Y
Thompson 23/03/99 16 Y
Palmer 09/11/96 18 N
Grant 11/10/98 16 Y

 

[BigOscar]

I don't think anyone suggested our players were younger, just that they had clearly put far more emphasis on players who'd developed physically early. It's a pretty standard tactic in youth football, as it's by far the easiest way to win.

I am curious as to whether there is any evidence that these players are more or less likely to have successful careers than the slower developers. I'd imagine they actually are at a disadvantage in the long run, as they never have to learn the technical side of the game at youth level, as they find it so much easier to just run straight past people with power and pace. Why learn how to hit a perfectly weighted through pass if you can just charge past people? Why learn how to spin away from pressure when you can just hold them off with strength?

If you imagine the amount of guile and intelligence someone like David Silva had to learn to play against bigger opponents, compared to someone like Lukaku who could just let their physicality do the work, it's hard to imagine that the smaller player doesn't gain more from youth football, even if they are less dominant. I'm not convinced you really learn a whole lot by beating people with your physicality, all that happens is that you eventually get to the point where you play against people just as physical as you and you discover you don't have the tools to do anything about it. Obviously if you continue to develop phyiscally and become a bit of a physical freak like a Lukaku or a Benteke then you can continue to rely almost entirely on that, but you can't help but feel they'd have benefited hugely on concentrating a bit more on the technical side of their games.

I don't know, it might just be me, but I imagine people like Manu Garcia, Angelino and Maffeo learnt a lot more from those games than their giant lads.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't think anyone suggested our players were younger, just that they had clearly put far more emphasis on players who'd developed physically early. It's a pretty standard tactic in youth football, as it's by far the easiest way to win.

I am curious as to whether there is any evidence that these players are more or less likely to have successful careers than the slower developers. I'd imagine they actually are at a disadvantage in the long run, as they never have to learn the technical side of the game at youth level, as they find it so much easier to just run straight past people with power and pace. Why learn how to hit a perfectly weighted through pass if you can just charge past people? Why learn how to spin away from pressure when you can just hold them off with strength?

If you imagine the amount of guile and intelligence someone like David Silva had to learn to play against bigger opponents, compared to someone like Lukaku who could just let their physicality do the work, it's hard to imagine that the smaller player doesn't gain more from youth football, even if they are less dominant. I'm not convinced you really learn a whole lot by beating people with your physicality, all that happens is that you eventually get to the point where you play against people just as physical as you and you discover you don't have the tools to do anything about it. Obviously if you continue to develop phyiscally and become a bit of a physical freak like a Lukaku or a Benteke then you can continue to rely almost entirely on that, but you can't help but feel they'd have benefited hugely on concentrating a bit more on the technical side of their games.

I don't know, it might just be me, but I imagine people like Manu Garcia, Angelino and Maffeo learnt a lot more from those games than their giant lads.

The reason Chelsea's players are so big, is the same reason Utd's are often big; they do loads of tests to try & predict how they will grow etc & select them accordingly.

That's another one of the reasons why we don't produce top quality players anymore. What is obvious is that City are not following the same & thank fuck for that.

It's so much easier for these Chelsea lads to knock ours around & win trophies, until they come up against people like Ambrose & Boadu who knock them around, then skin them on the ground, as they are better. Let's see how many come through.

As for the Jim Cassell agenda, well done to his scouting team if he did sign those players but he was in charge of an academy which, like most othersin this country, produced mainly mid table players plus the occasional rapist & mugger.

They had fantastic facilities compared to those who came before them, and those previously produced scores of infinitely better players with little or no facilities at all. So if Cassell was good, how good was Ken Barnes ? He found players who starred in our first team. Loads of them. Many would get in this one now with modern day coaching etc.

The academy system, we had SWP, Richards & Sturridge all taken from other clubs & that was it as far as real top quality, for all of those years. Not one top player produced, at all. The players who thrived were often the most physical ones. We made money.

The football we play now at that level is infinitely better & the players look more like potential first team players. So thanks to everyone for the good work in the past.

But we are now much better.