So Pep failed at Bayern?

[pavelsrnicek]

Perhaps more will be enlightened this summer.

Pep has kept us at it, regardless of half the team being over the hill 12 months ago - some more than that.

In a new system, in a top-five equation where two of those teams currently above us never kicked a ball in anger this season in Europe, another one who was knocked out of the Champions League group stage of a piss easy group (Just a reminder we played Celtic, Barca and Monchengladbach x2) and United dancing the Thursday night grab-a-granny night.

And before someone declares Pep should have addressed the issues with personnel, the club were in no position to move on players with 12 months remaining on their deals.

I don't think people have fully appreciated how many flaws there are in even our strongest team, notably full back and centre midfield. Pep has changed our lineup repeatedly hoping to paper over these but it will only work for a spell, certainly against the better sides, then he's had to try and mix it up again. Despite that I can really only think of the Spurs away, Leicester away and Monaco away as matches where we didn't perform. Most of the other matches have been either missed chances or bad defensive errors, sometimes both.

Once the holes have been filled, plus better cover for KdB and Silva, I really think we are looking at a phenomenal team.

 

[TFC]

God forbid we lose on Sunday, what anyone thinks about Peps accomplishments at Bayern will pale into insignificance compared to the shite that will be spouted on here.

 

[robert o'mancini]

Firstly there's a reason some managers are decent, some half decent and some great, it's not about the players you have at your disposal although that helps but it's about motivation, keeping the fringe players happy, changing tactics to suit certain games and drilling that into the 'superstars' so that they work hard as well as just use their flair. If half decent managers could do it, Hughes would have done better as would Moyes, even AVB at Chelsea.

Secondly, would i like to win it all the time playing a style like Athletico, then no, would i be happy to win it every few years playing an attacking brand of football, being entertained every week even when we do lose then yes i'd prefer that.

I had a conversation with a lad after our first title who was adamant we now needed to go and win it every season, i said at the time and still believe that no team in England will ever dominate again and that being in or around the title but playing entertaining football was all that mattered to me, i've been going since the mid '70's and seen enough dour shite that being entertained was all i wanted, i accept that's not everyone's cup or tea but it's how i feel.

I'm in the win at all costs boat.

I find a defensive performance with a late breakaway goal to win it a thing of beauty.

One of the best matches I can ever remember watching was Italy v Germany in a world cup semi in Germany. Italy did what you'd expect them to do, sat back, men behind the ball, gradually came into it later on and BOOM Delpiero did em on the break. Marvellous stuff.

 

[robert o'mancini]

How many CL semi's Pep been to?

How do you expect a club with our ambitions and our resources to operate like a club that's broke ?

How many winning teams don't dominate possession ?

Don't know, a couple less than Messi I'd guess.

Basing our whole operation on Atletico is not what I meant. Because we have money we can't be pragmatic on the pitch ?

Possession per se doesn't win games.

 

[BillyShears]

Don't know, a couple less than Messi I'd guess.

Basing our whole operation on Atletico is not what I meant. Because we have money we can't be pragmatic on the pitch ?

Possession per se doesn't win games.

Look it up. Pep's brand of football has done brilliantly if what you're looking for is regular appearances in the semi's.

The question about being pragmatic on the pitch is fair one. But ultimately it's not our decision to make, it's one the owners have made. If you look at the power and reach that Guardiola, Begiristain, and Soriano have into the entire footballing operation then it's clear that this isn't a whimsical decision on Mansour's part. We are going to live or die doing it the Cruyff/Barcelona/Guardiola way. My guess is that we will probably win a bit less than if we got super cynical and just started employing coaches like Simeone, but this way is going to be a lot more fun. What we're going to be eventually, because Barcelona and Bayern ended up like this, is a side built on supreme defensive stability. All the attacking intent will be there because the defence is so stable. This season's given a little bit of oxygen to those who think Pep's a bit of a fraud. They'll all eat those words come this time next season.

True possession per se doesn't win games, but not having possession becomes even more tedious much faster. There might be a small minority who genuinely love the defensive side of the game. But I suspect for most people who watch football they'd much rather be watching a spectacle where their team has the ball rather than one where their team just tries to stop the other team from scoring a goal.

 

[fatbloke]

I'm exaggerating to make a point pal. Obviously I couldn't but a half decent manager could assuming the players didn't down tools.

Belittling Atletico's achievements is daft. Whichever way you spin it Simeone has, in modern parlance, added value in terms of being successful. Their overall budget is much smaller than Barca and Real.

Cynical ? No team in history have been as cynical as Barca.

Question. Would you rather finish a distant 2nd or 3rd playing "pretty" football or win it playing pragmatic football ?

Why do you have to choose? You can win playing "pretty" football. In all fairness I'd say you have to be an attacking team to be consistently successful, very very few teams are successful long term playing defensive counter attacking football.

 

[inchy14]

I'm in the win at all costs boat.

I find a defensive performance with a late breakaway goal to win it a thing of beauty.

One of the best matches I can ever remember watching was Italy v Germany in a world cup semi in Germany. Italy did what you'd expect them to do, sat back, men behind the ball, gradually came into it later on and BOOM Delpiero did em on the break. Marvellous stuff.

Wrong, it became a 'thing of beauty' because they nicked it, if they hadn't scored and had lost it would have been what they deserved. You're saying it all in hindsight.

Winning at all costs is for those ****s across the road, I'd rather do it with style and if it comes up short sometimes so be it.
You'd rather basically cheat but as long as we've a trophy at the end you'll be happy, I won't.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

Personally I think Pep has done a decent job and I'm really glad he is here. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to say he/Txiki couldn't move on others.
They put out Hart, Bony, Nasri & Mangala when they wanted to, Zab said he was on the point of signing in Italy.
They have decided to prioritize other areas which is fair enough, but they certainly could have shifted the full backs had they chosen to do so.

Yes, but they are all on loan.

 

[Cityfan]

Yes, but they are all on loan.

Absolutely but there is no rule stating how many players you can loan out.

 

[aguero93:20]

Fuck me, this has got to be one of the most stupid things I've read on here in a while.



Answer. The win.

Question. Would you rather finish a distant 2nd or 3rd playing "pragmatic" football or win it playing entertaining football?

Hah, the rags would kill to finish second or third playing "pragmatic" football, best the bastards will manage is fifth.