The Boxing thread

[bluemc1]

Wlad was dominant but not great imo. I get that you can only beat what’s in front of you but his reign was during a very barren decade. Most of his fights were against much smaller shorter men and the refs were in his pocket so it was jab jab right hand, the opponent throws a feint, gets inside to go to work, Wlad ties em up leans his giant frame on them and repeats til they’re exhausted while the ref is happily letting him cheat. Had the refs been fair he’d have had a lot more proper challenges to his crown

completely agree, not a knock of Vlad he did what he needed to do but he doesn’t make my top 10 all time list, in fact I put his brother higher than him, Vitali at his best he was as Awkward as Fury, very tough and punched harder than Fury
There isn’t a single name on Vlads record Fury wouldn’t be favourite to be, add AJ into that, you can’t ignore the quality of the opposition Vlad had and it was terrible
Fury has been up against it and comeback each time to win, if you feel he didn’t win the first Wilder fight ok but he got up beyond all odds and carried on taking the fight while groggy v the biggest puncher in the division.

Fury is a very good fighter who knows every trick in the book and is currently regarded by most now as the best heavyweight right now. It’s pointless talking about Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc...you can’t compare today’s lot against them as the people they beat in fights are levels above the current crop

let’s say
Ali
Louis
Marciano
Frazier
Foreman
Tyson
Lennox
Holyfield
Holmes
Liston

give or take that’s most names that get banded about as the BEST EVER

ALI fought FOUR of them and beat 3 of them going in as the underdog

it’s best to just discuss today’s bunch against each other, hitting Fury with Ali comparisons isn’t really fair

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Klitchko was the last undisputed great...very correct, till he discovered it was virtually impossible to put a right hand on fury...then he was undisputed n'more.
Wilder put it on him...only when he started fuckin about....he didnt just get up, he got up and backed him up...furys got his number( bristowe v lowe all over)

TF has done a lot of fuckin about. Agree.

When i say undisputed i mean an undisputed all time great who ranks somewhere among the all time greats (Ali, Tyson, Lewis Etc). Prime W Klitschko was that caliber of fighter. TF is not anywhere near that league.

WK never fought his brother so there is a whole era there where the 2 best fighters never fought each other but between them, post Lenox Lewis retirement, they dominated the division with a degree of comfort - they lost a few here and there but you get that in every era where a great fighter dominates.

Wlad was dominant but not great imo. I get that you can only beat what’s in front of you but his reign was during a very barren decade. Most of his fights were against much smaller shorter men and the refs were in his pocket so it was jab jab right hand, the opponent throws a feint, gets inside to go to work, Wlad ties em up leans his giant frame on them and repeats til they’re exhausted while the ref is happily letting him cheat. Had the refs been fair he’d have had a lot more proper challenges to his crown

That description sounds exactly like how TF beat Wilder - he even got a point deducted for it. The Klitschko brother both lost fights here and there but they never really lost control of the division for well over 10 years. They fought all comers and mostly in Germany so not sure how you can say the refs were in their pocket. If there was a good enough fighter then it would have come to an end (TF beat him at the age of 38 ish). As I understand it, WK holds the record for unbeaten title defenses - not sure how you can argue with that.

 

[Boris Becker’s Backhand]

completely agree, not a knock of Vlad he did what he needed to do but he doesn’t make my top 10 all time list, in fact I put his brother higher than him, Vitali at his best he was as Awkward as Fury, very tough and punched harder than Fury
There isn’t a single name on Vlads record Fury wouldn’t be favourite to be, add AJ into that, you can’t ignore the quality of the opposition Vlad had and it was terrible
Fury has been up against it and comeback each time to win, if you feel he didn’t win the first Wilder fight ok but he got up beyond all odds and carried on taking the fight while groggy v the biggest puncher in the division.

Fury is a very good fighter who knows every trick in the book and is currently regarded by most now as the best heavyweight right now. It’s pointless talking about Ali, Frazier, Foreman etc...you can’t compare today’s lot against them as the people they beat in fights are levels above the current crop

let’s say
Ali
Louis
Marciano
Frazier
Foreman
Tyson
Lennox
Holyfield
Holmes
Liston

give or take that’s most names that get banded about as the BEST EVER

ALI fought FOUR of them and beat 3 of them going in as the underdog

it’s best to just discuss today’s bunch against each other, hitting Fury with Ali comparisons isn’t really fair

Bang on the money pal. For what it’s worth although I think fury is the best of this era and I have a lot of time for him I don’t put him anywhere near a top 10 all time list. Lennox jabs his head off, prime iron Mike’s feet are way too fast for him and he gets to Fury too easily, Holyfield breaks him down with body shots and the incomparable Ali just dazzles him.

 

[dannyboy29]

https://t.co/GpdklgIQ32

Remember when ferguson said " not in my lifetime"

What hes done is good dont get we wrong. However, when you look at the facts he was a millionaire who decided to have a few years off on the coke and booze. He then has a full team around him to get back on the straight an narrow and cater for his every need.

If he would have had to hold down a 50hr a week job, look after his kids while at the same time drag himself out of the gutter and off the drink and drugs then I would buy all the hero malarky.

 

[Boris Becker’s Backhand]

TF has done a lot of fuckin about. Agree.

When i say undisputed i mean an undisputed all time great who ranks somewhere among the all time greats (Ali, Tyson, Lewis Etc). Prime W Klitschko was that caliber of fighter. TF is not anywhere near that league.

WK never fought his brother so there is a whole era there where the 2 best fighters never fought each other but between them, post Lenox Lewis retirement, they dominated the division with a degree of comfort - they lost a few here and there but you get that in every era where a great fighter dominates.



That description sounds exactly like how TF beat Wilder - he even got a point deducted for it. The Klitschko brother both lost fights here and there but they never really lost control of the division for well over 10 years. They fought all comers and mostly in Germany so not sure how you can say the refs were in their pocket. If there was a good enough fighter then it would have come to an end (TF beat him at the age of 38 ish). As I understand it, WK holds the record for unbeaten title defenses - not sure how you can argue with that.

Yeah but fury threw punches from all angles, bamboozled him with his movement and worked the body better than Wlad ever did

The Klitschkos made Germany their 2nd home, Wlad made his pro debut there and lived in Hamburg for many years. They were absolutely massive there, staging fights at big arenas to throngs of adoring fans, the refs were very much in their favour.

I’m not disrespecting Wlad. He was a very good champion who maxed out his natural assets and showed proper character to come back after those two bad beatdowns early on in his career but the quantity of title defences can’t disguise the relative lack of quality of the vast majority of his opponents in those defences.

 

[Boris Becker’s Backhand]

What hes done is good dont get we wrong. However, when you look at the facts he was a millionaire who decided to have a few years off on the coke and booze. He then has a full team around him to get back on the straight an narrow and cater for his every need.

If he would have had to hold down a 50hr a week job, look after his kids while at the same time drag himself out of the gutter and off the drink and drugs then I would buy all the hero malarky.

Agreed. Tyson is a very clever man who realised he’d dug himself into a bit of a hole with his controversial comments and having partied a couple of years away some might argue that he played the whole “depression” card very well as his comeback unfolded

 

[Fat Chance]

Nobody said wlad was past it pre the fury fight...nobody...he was past it after it witnessed he couldnt lay a glove on a bi polar gypo...thats when he was past it

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Yeah but fury threw punches from all angles, bamboozled him with his movement and worked the body better than Wlad ever did

The Klitschkos made Germany their 2nd home, Wlad made his pro debut there and lived in Hamburg for many years. They were absolutely massive there, staging fights at big arenas to throngs of adoring fans, the refs were very much in their favour.

I’m not disrespecting Wlad. He was a very good champion who maxed out his natural assets and showed proper character to come back after those two bad beatdowns early on in his career but the quantity of title defences can’t disguise the relative lack of quality of the vast majority of his opponents in those defences.

I think we are all agreeing that the quality of heavyweight fighters has tailed off over the last 20 years. The last era of greats was Tyson / Holyfield / Lewis who all had numerous massive title fights. Lewis beat an old M Tyson toward the end of his career 2002 ish having had 3 massive fights with Holyfield who had in turn beaten prime Tyson - they all had their moments of brilliance and you can trace back through great fighters fighting each other from that era backwards. From when the Klischkos domination started there has been nothing comparable. The Klitschkos beat practically everyone in front of them but it was nothing like the kind of stand out brawls with greats v's greats of the previous eras.

TF beating WK and AJ beating Wk does not compare - he was old then. TF beating Wilder does not compare - Wilder is not a great fighter. I dont see any sign of things changing - unless AJ and TF fight each other fairly soon.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Nobody said wlad was past it pre the fury fight...nobody...he was past it after it witnessed he couldnt lay a glove on a bi polar gypo...thats when he was past it

He was clearly in the worst shape of his career in that fight - and clearly came back much stronger for the subsequent AJ fight. And those were his last 2 fights..... so yes he was pretty much past it at that point.

 

[Fat Chance]

He was clearly in the worst shape of his career in that fight - and clearly came back much stronger for the subsequent AJ fight. And those were his last 2 fights..... so yes he was pretty much past it at that point.

Any champion who cant lay a glove on a smiling opponent will be in bad shape in thier career, biting iron mike and no mas roberto will lay testament to that. Though once their range is found with a more suitable opponent then their shape returns, least that's what history tells us.