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Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ono, 26 Oct 2010.
Wilder got wobbled badly by Eric Molina so 100% if AJ clocks him clean he's going to sleep.
I was reading an interview with Johnny Nelson and he said klitchko has sparred with wilder and knocked him out cold on 2 occasions, also floored him with a body blow
Because... like I said he can't even do it that way against B-Side fighters, I'm not doubting he throws some technically impressive shots but that's not how he finishes them off that's creating openings(which elite fighters will limit better) and then swings wildly(which elite fighters will exploit).
The facts are(and they do hold up most of what I said if you look at it objectively) he's had twice as many fights almost, he turned pro a whole 5 years before AJ and to add to that AJ took up boxing later than most pro boxers do. That's why I feel he has a higher ceiling he's already showing himself to be the better boxer and there is most probably much more to come(that's speculation on my part from what I've seen so far but he's improved rapidly since he went pro)
Also I don't see how you can still be questioning Joshua's chin when he's passed that test(this is heavyweight boxing, he got caught flush and recovered fast... if that's not a pass I don't know what is). Whyte isn't elite but better than what Wilder got tagged by(which is why Wilder should fight him if the fight isn't happening soon) and you're forgetting Joshua was relatively green in that fight, it was also a personal beef where he wasn't as composed as he usually is.
I know the AJ hype is huge which annoys some but it's good for boxing(moreso than Mayweather vs McGregor or Hayve Vs Bellew), I don't mind Wilder he brings the knockouts too which is what the mainstream/casuals want(that's where the real money is and boxing needs the mainstream as much as the hardcore look down on them) I just think for boxing purests AJ would be the better champ(they should forget focusing on how he looks like a bodybuilder and concentrate on boxing skill). Obviously I want AJ to win by KO after outboxing him for a few rounds because he has a better character(Wilder talks so much bullshit I barely finish watching one of his videos) but also so haters have to eat another slice of humble pie. I find them weird, like he fucked their wife(Amir Khan vibes with some). I can also see there is a faction of british boxing fans hoping he loses so they can save a bit of face after they spouted off "It's Audley Harrison mk 2" when he first went pro it's the same with the Frank Bruno comments(nothing like him, also blind ignorance to how much sports science has advanced).
I know who I think the favourite is but in truth as I said these are two very powerful heavyweights if either of them make the mistake of thinking they can't be knocked out it will be their downfall as their KO% speaks for itself. Whatever the result maybe I think AJ has proved his doubters wrong already in such a short space of time, you can't fault him or accuse him of ducking if he fights Wilder, Parker and Fury within next year or two that's unheard of in the heavyweight scene these days. I thought the plan was Parker then Wilder but it looks like they may go straight for Wilder. Fury coming back may be the reason why that's being pushed forward, which is another credit to Hearn and AJ wanting to face the best, not afraid to take risks.
If we are honest all the top heavyweights today have their flaws, Fury included(people overrate him too as they do with the others, they are all beatable), it might not be the best era but it's been a lot worse, it will get better if the best face the best as they learn from fighting each other and raise their game... also at least it's interesting again.
Agree with the last 3 paragraphs more or less.
I was quite clearly talking about the Whyte punch... yes he certainly did recover fast from that punch. He was far from "stiff as fuck" or gassed or whatever for 3-4 rounds so I don't know where that's coming from, I find it a little odd you're even claiming such. He handled it very well in my opinion, was clearly stunned but didn't give his opponent too much hope and it was a short lived moment of success for Whyte in the end.
The Klitschko punch would have either knocked many fighters out or at least made the task of finishing them off before the bell sounded an easy one, I was actually impressed in how he handled the moments after getting back to his feet, showed more defence than most thought he had for those who cared look for it. He did look drained for 3-4 rounds after that(not stiff there's a difference sounds like the Frank Bruno talk creeping in there) or gassed as they say, he wasn't literally on unsteady legs for 4 rounds though I don't think people realise how energy sapping recovering from something like that can be. He wasn't able to go on the front foot or outwork Wlad but he was still dangerous, already knocked him down once which is why I don't think Wlad going all out for a stoppage would have been the forgone conclusion some believe, he was still able to slip and counter.
Fair enough about the rest of your points, perhaps finished article was the wrong wording but I did feel I had explained why I felt AJ's ceiling is higher. I tend to see Wilder as more of an athlete with power than a boxer with power that's not to say he's no good, there's been a lot of fighters in that mould.
I'd put the fight at 60/40 in AJs favour going into this but it's probably fairer to say 50/50 as one punch could decide it for either of them(so not really a fight I expect to go the distance or would mind being wrong about given the margins). On one hand Wilder is slightly taller(1 inch), has a slightly longer reach(1inch) and should be quicker on his feet if not his hands(his legs do seem a lot leaner which has me wondering how he will cope if he is clocked). On the other AJ is physically bigger than Wilder in terms of sheer mass(and it's mostly muscle not fat) despite Wilder being an inch taller, I also rate his boxing skills higher and defence and therefore ring IQ.
Just wanted to add I think there may be something to the idea that Wilder is being protected, it could be that Wilder has wanted big fights but his team have purposely have done a poor job of securing fights in the past for fear of him losing that belt. There's quotes from his team soon after winning his title to the effect of "it's too soon", which makes some of the trash talk aimed at AJ seem laughable.
More than that Hearn caught one of Wilder's guys out(Shelley Finkel) on a phone in show in NYC recently:
In short they made a big deal trying to claim Hearn was lying about there being no attempt from their team to open serious negotiations for an AJ fight yet. Said they tried to talk about an AJ fight when in fact they had only discussed a Whyte fight and tried to get them to write an AJ fight into the contract off the back of that... the problem being the two dislike each other enough(that beef is definitely not for the cameras) to have told Eddie they don't want that situation where they could be helping the other fighter it would have to be separate contract as neither Whyte or AJ would have signed that contract. Seemed like the show hosts totally took advantage of Eddie there, seemed a setup and they were totally ignoring him when he was trying to answer their questions that they kept repeating was just poor form. How many times did he say outright the fight can be next(summer next year) from the very start of that? Utter stupidity that some of the fanboys are now convinced the whole thing was a master plan to rattle Eddie into accepting a fight which he had no qualms with in the first place. Not enough time has passed to give it any credence to any fight fan with an ounce of sense, what's next "been calling you out for 5mins stop ducking". I suppose it's just part of the game to get fans riled up, to sell the fight but I do find myself looking at some comments and wondering if they employ plants on social media(youtube, twitter etc) these days.
On another note, recent developments have seen a pattern forming of Wilder winning by default of any opponents considered remotely good/dangerous being disqualified due to failed doping tests, Wawrzyk, Povetkin, Ortiz... Fury himself was eyeing up a potential bout with Wilder. Is it that much of leap of faith to think that politics could come into it? It's been a long while since America had a decent HW boxer and we know how much it used to be used as a status symbol for the might of America #MakeAmericaGreatAgain?
The more I think about it the more I have my doubts over whether the fight will go ahead, the more I think AJ should insist the fight be in the UK, Wilder doesn't have half the clout he thinks he does. Any ridiculous demands should be made public to let everyone decide for themselves whether they really want the fight and to remind them who holds the higher prestige/status in boxing right now.
The bit about Wilder's opponents regularly being withdrawn due to drug violations as some kind of conspiracy to build up Wilder as this force to be frightened of, it's a hell of a theory and in this day and age I wouldn't necessarily argue it being out of the question, especially as like you said, it's been a long time since America had a significant heavyweight champion. Seems weird that instead of just promoting the bloke properly as an exciting to watch, good talking and KO-happy champion, his fights would be sabotaged by these drug rulings as part of a wider political game.
I can see why you have doubts whether we'll really see the fight, as with most big fights I'll believe in the likelihood of the fight happening as and when I see them weigh in against each other!
Lets be honest you can now talk your way into a big fight. With Twitter and social media so powerful now they will now more than likely get this fight on and I hope it is in the next 6 months. I do like both and Wilder is right about a champion needing to travel to fight he has travel around the world to fight a few fights so far. I think he will sell the fight big time. I think if they want this fight to bringing heavyweight boxing back to big time US in Vegas then this fight has to be the 1 to bring to Vegas. Now will Hearn and AJ go to Vegas to fight or will they milk the money they will get from a Wembley or Cardiff instead and fight a Parker first.
I know Wilder is a loud mouth but fuck it people will pay top dollar to see loudmouths get beaten. Look at the numbers Money v McGregor done people tuned into that fight more so to see McGregor getting KOd and it happen. This wont do as well as that fight in the PPV numbers and i do think that this could be the fight to bring heavyweight boxing back to the US. Wilder and American public need this fight. We need America to be producing the bigger fighters in the heavyweights I long for a new Tyson a new Holyfield to get the fight game over there back on the up again.
Atleast there's boxing on in the international break eh? I'm not sure how I missed Daniel Jabobs being signed by Eddie Hearn/Matchroom(have they set up a Matchroom USA branch or something?), Hearn's becoming quite the celebrity over there by the looks of it, he'll be loving that mr apples and pears haha. To be fair I matchroom have been putting on some great nights recently.
Nassau Coliseum, New York
Daniel Jacobs v Luis Arias, Jarrell Miller v Mariusz Wach, Roberto Ortiz v Cletus Seldin
Sky Main Event Sunday 2:30am, should be good.
Well that part was nothing to do with him being feared, more to do with his excuses for not facing much top opposition if at all. I'd find it more weird that these fighters(all of whom would have added credibility to his record if he beat them) who had fallen foul of doping tests, did so deliberately just so they don't have to face Wilder... I'm pretty sure Wilder has used that as an argument but even he can't believe that surely? Haha.
I don't really think he is feared to begin with. I can't remember him chasing any big names for any length of time that wouldn't fight him, does anyone know where this claim comes from? Who exactly does he think was ducking him?