Damocles said:The options are never that simple though. It's far easier to use non-torture techniques within the framework of the law for information gathering.
It's also worth pointing out that at no time in the last 20 years would any intelligence agency not have any leads to go on. Digital recording and sorting of communication has put an end to that. The problem is the opposite one - they have so many leads to go on that they cannot separate the noise from the relevant chatter. Getting a 1 in 100 hit ratio and investing all of the money into that investigation is the problem. Remember when we talk about resources here we aren't just talking about money but the lives of operatives in the field too. Operatives who have spent years positioning themselves in place so that when some solid info comes up they can report it. Losing one of them is worth thousands of man hours
BigJoe#1 said:Damocles said:The options are never that simple though. It's far easier to use non-torture techniques within the framework of the law for information gathering.
It's also worth pointing out that at no time in the last 20 years would any intelligence agency not have any leads to go on. Digital recording and sorting of communication has put an end to that. The problem is the opposite one - they have so many leads to go on that they cannot separate the noise from the relevant chatter. Getting a 1 in 100 hit ratio and investing all of the money into that investigation is the problem. Remember when we talk about resources here we aren't just talking about money but the lives of operatives in the field too. Operatives who have spent years positioning themselves in place so that when some solid info comes up they can report it. Losing one of them is worth thousands of man hours
I keep reading this.... Have you any examples of such non-torture techniques? Remember, these are radicalised terrorists you're dealing with that will die for their cause, probably much more indoctrinated than you average armed robber, who incidentally, once they've taken up arms , also lose many rights they might normally expect from a caring society.
Would that not be considered a form of torture, how they were administered if against the subjects will?Hamann Pineapple said:BigJoe#1 said:Damocles said:The options are never that simple though. It's far easier to use non-torture techniques within the framework of the law for information gathering.
It's also worth pointing out that at no time in the last 20 years would any intelligence agency not have any leads to go on. Digital recording and sorting of communication has put an end to that. The problem is the opposite one - they have so many leads to go on that they cannot separate the noise from the relevant chatter. Getting a 1 in 100 hit ratio and investing all of the money into that investigation is the problem. Remember when we talk about resources here we aren't just talking about money but the lives of operatives in the field too. Operatives who have spent years positioning themselves in place so that when some solid info comes up they can report it. Losing one of them is worth thousands of man hours
I keep reading this.... Have you any examples of such non-torture techniques? Remember, these are radicalised terrorists you're dealing with that will die for their cause, probably much more indoctrinated than you average armed robber, who incidentally, once they've taken up arms , also lose many rights they might normally expect from a caring society.
Truth drugs ?
To me that isn't torture that is punishment and something they should all be subject to in any case. Minimalist imprisonment I'd like to call it.yeah whatever !! said:Yes.. Mental torture.. life in solitary away from friends, family, news ,TV,books, everything...which is what they have done to their victims.
let them spend the rest of their life contemplating alone where their actions have left them.
BigJoe#1 said:Would that not be considered a form of torture, how they were administered if against the subjects will?Hamann Pineapple said:BigJoe#1 said:I keep reading this.... Have you any examples of such non-torture techniques? Remember, these are radicalised terrorists you're dealing with that will die for their cause, probably much more indoctrinated than you average armed robber, who incidentally, once they've taken up arms , also lose many rights they might normally expect from a caring society.
Truth drugs ?
If they exist and they work and they can be administered harmoniously then it negates the need for this entire thread. Sadly I suspect we will never get an affirmative to all three conditions, great point though, seriously.
True definitions of torture above. Administering an injection that would losen lips could hardly be compared to the infliction of severe pain or mental abuse. Even if they objected it still wouldn't class as a form or torture.Defining torture
The most widely accepted definition of torture internationally is that set out by Article 1 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT):
“... 'torture' means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”
From this definition, it can be said that torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose.
Torture is often used to punish, to obtain information or a confession, to take revenge on a person or persons or create terror and fear within a population.
Some of the most common methods of physical torture include beating, electric shocks, stretching, submersion, suffocation, burns, rape and sexual assault.
Psychological forms of torture and ill-treatment, which very often have the most long-lasting consequences for victims, commonly include: isolation, threats, humiliation, mock executions, mock amputations, and witnessing the torture of others.
Ratification of the Convention obligates governments to assert responsibility for the prevention of torture and the redress for victims of torture. While the global fight requires the active support of all people, the government of a given territory is ultimately responsible for any torture that occurs within its boundaries. Individual governments, therefore, must take it upon themselves to take part in the struggle against torture. Ratification of the Convention is often a necessary first step in this process.
For this reason, the IRCT places a great emphasis on collective action aimed at the universal ratification of the Convention. Persons who reside in countries that have not ratified it have a very important role in lobbying within their own society. Persons who live in countries that have already ratified the Convention may also contribute to the cause through education and awareness raising activities promoting the cause of universal ratification of the Convention.
Stop giving wives/girlfriends ideas Girlbobbobmcfc said:Just use sodium thiopental. At the correct dosage it is way more effective than thumb screws