Claudio Bravo - 2016/2017 performances (continued)

[kenzie115]

OMG. Do you expect the keeper to be regularly saving shots form 7 yards? It was a defensive mistake that led to that goal. How many dangerous situations did we avoid by not hoofing the ball straight back to the opposition, but by playing from the back. He closed the angle well and was unlucky not to make the save. Some people ... honestly. Worst keeper in EPL? Tell me you are joking.

It might have been from 7 yards but it was actually harder to let it in than save it. Bunn's shot was straight at him but he somehow managed to jump over it. Could have just stuck a foot out and kicked it away.

I love some of his distribution, although he can dawdle at times (this can be due to players not finding space quickly enough though) but he's just not good enough at stopping shots. We can't afford to concede from every other shot on target, even if he does help us hit 80% possession. We'll never stop teams having some chances and we need a keeper that can be relied upon to prevent most of the chances resulting in goals.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I was reading this at lunchtime and came up with a much longer post in my head, but the crux is I find it almost equally as poor that when you strip away the dressing on most of these posts, the reality is that most people aren't pissed off about this because of the treatment of Bravo, but rather because they think it matters that rags/dippers and the media will jump on it and "rub it in our face" and they'll become embarrassed, like it's somehow new from City fans or people in general.

A month ago I would have come on and vented about it, but last night I sat there, didn't like it, but understood it, and they have a point. I don't like the way they express it, but hey many City players including Willy have had the same or worse stick, and it's up to them to make something of it and swim, like Willy has.

Bravo seems to be taking it on the chin, but Pep once again just doesn't get it. He may have been given a version of our history, but he doesn't get us or it.

I certainly won't criticise those who did it to defend those who have got a precious little attitude that somehow we're all morally superior and that's what we have that's better than all the rest. It isn't, we aren't some model of perfection. It's like the casual rags projection of success on their meaningless lives, it's just pitiful.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Prior to his arrival, everyone salivated at the thought of him becoming our boss. They yearned for his forward thinking tactical brilliance. We all knew he was different and we all knew that he would drag English football into the 21st century so its all the more perplexing to see some of them up in arms over it all.

"Pissing around with it" as a few have now called it is absolutely key in dragging the opposition on so as to create the space for us to attack and exploit. To enable that a goalkeeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet is also key and Pep isnt going to change that need any time soon.

We won 5-1 last night, end of and for Bravo's poor attempt at a save we could spend hours dissecting every other player out there and some of their mistakes as well if we are going to go down that road.

Get behind Pep, his players, his method and for fucks sake, just enjoy it because at times its spectacular and its beautiful.

Very well said, mate.

 

[blue61]

I have criticised and supported people doing whatever they want to show their feelings towards Bravo. The biggest sadness for me was I just sat there and was non plus when he let the goal in last night as it was accepted that is the norm. I really hope he can start stopping shots but I wouldn't bet any money on it.

I have no expertise on football more than any other punter but it looks to me he has a problem getting his body to ground to save shots and his positioning in closing angles is weak at best. It is difficult for Pep having ousted Hart to accept the adaptability of Bravo but I would expect he won't be here come next August

 

[Rolee]

It might have been from 7 yards but it was actually harder to let it in than save it. Bunn's shot was straight at him but he somehow managed to jump over it. Could have just stuck a foot out and kicked it away.

I love some of his distribution, although he can dawdle at times (this can be due to players not finding space quickly enough though) but he's just not good enough at stopping shots. We can't afford to concede from every other shot on target, even if he does help us hit 80% possession. We'll never stop teams having some chances and we need a keeper that can be relied upon to prevent most of the chances resulting in goals.

He managed to jump over it because of the deflection, it did him, that's not to excuse him as I still believe he could've reacted to the deflection.

 

[i kne albert davy]

OMG. Do you expect the keeper to be regularly saving shots form 7 yards? It was a defensive mistake that led to that goal. How many dangerous situations did we avoid by not hoofing the ball straight back to the opposition, but by playing from the back. He closed the angle well and was unlucky not to make the save. Some people ... honestly. Worst keeper in EPL? Tell me you are joking.

Problem is you could probably put every shot on goal as a defensive mistake goalkeepers do save shots from 7 yards,well good ones do.I'm not sure I buy into the creating of chances be drawing teams on and beating the press either,out goal difference and goals scored this season says it's not, when we had a hoof it out keeper we scored more and conceded less. And honestly I'm struggling to think of a worse keeper in the premier league/EPL I apologise if you're American.

 

[Kempy93:20]

Indeed.

Football manager doesn't fancy a player and moves him on shocker.

Some are acting like its an attack on the very fabric of the club and that it goes against all that is right and decent when in reality, it happens at every single club every single season.

Players are professionals, not fans and lets not forget they too often fancy a change, much to the angst of fans.

There is nothing to see here other than the next phase for the club and sqaud.

Would Pellegrini have got away with it? Shifting out a perfectly capable keeper who the players trust and who is in his prime, to be replaced by someone who can kick a ball better but is like a bowl of jelly when it comes to actual goal keeping? I doubt it. The same way he wouldn't have got away with selling Aguero and replacing him with Shane Long. Pep would have though, with some it seems.
Losing Hart and bringing in Bravo is a backwards step in your next phase for the club and squad line. Most can see it, yet the manager still defends him. The simple fact here is that he is wrong on this and there is no valid argument against that. This isn't La Liga and this supposed goal keeper we've been shafted with is not up to it in our league.

 

[schfc6]

Would Pellegrini have got away with it? Shifting out a perfectly capable keeper who the players trust and who is in his prime, to be replaced by someone who can kick a ball better but is like a bowl of jelly when it comes to actual goal keeping? I doubt it. The same way he wouldn't have got away with selling Aguero and replacing him with Shane Long. Pep would have though, with some it seems.
Losing Hart and bringing in Bravo is a backwards step in your next phase for the club and squad line. Most can see it, yet the manager still defends him. The simple fact here is that he is wrong on this and there is no valid argument against that. This isn't La Liga and this supposed goal keeper we've been shafted with is not up to it in our league.

Joe Hart simply could not do what is being asked of our keepers.

Those that can't "see that" then football isn't for them.
We may see someone brought in better than Bravo with their hands or we may wait and see if Bravo returns to form. He has just been voted in the top 5 keepers in World football after all. What we certainly won't see is a return to Joe standards of distribution. Any keeper we have will be excellent on the floor.

Some fans are going to have to get use to that.

I think Bravo is a scapegoat and sacrificial lamb in equal measure.
We are implementing a whole new defensive system, he & Willy are doing as instructed whilst the defence struggle with it.
I'd like to see Bravo given his chance when we have the defenders required in place.

I think Pep sees it the same. Pep only has two of the five players he requires currently.
Let's judge when all 5 are in place.

 

[Kempy93:20]

Joe Hart simply could not do what is being asked of our keepers.

Those that can't "see that" then football isn't for them.
We may see someone brought in better than Bravo with their hands or we may wait and see if Bravo returns to form. He has just been voted in the top 5 keepers in World football after all. What we certainly won't see is a return to Joe standards of distribution. Any keeper we have will be excellent on the floor.

Some fans are going to have to get use to that.

I think Bravo is a scapegoat and sacrificial lamb in equal measure.
We are implementing a whole new defensive system, he & Willy are doing as instructed whilst the defence struggle with it.
I'd like to see Bravo given his chance when we have the defenders required in place.

I think Pep sees it the same. Pep only has two of the five players he requires currently.
Let's judge when all 5 are in place.

I agree with most of that, the last bit especially, however a keeper is there to stop goals going into the net, and it's that simple. Whenever any opposing team is bearing down on goal and Bravo is in net, I have zero confidence in his ability to stop a goal, and if many of the fans feel that then I'm sure the defenders in front of him will too. It doesn't matter what they say in public, I'm not having it that they feel confident to do their job when they know the last man behind them isn't up to the task. Hart was, and it's telling that most prefer Willy now. How long ago was it he wasn't good enough and Hart should play every game? I'd also like to know why Willy has carte Blanche to kick the ball high when he wants, when that is supposedly what Hart has been moved out because of. The whole keeper situation is, for me, a needless mess seemingly created for a reason only Pep knows, and being disguised as that his kicking isn't good enough. We are and have been the last 7 years much stronger with Hart in goal, and the proof is in the pudding.
Stuart.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I'd also like to know why Willy has carte Blanche to kick the ball high when he wants, when that is supposedly what Hart has been moved out because of. The whole keeper situation is, for me, a needless mess seemingly created for a reason only Pep knows, and being disguised as that his kicking isn't good enough. We are and have been the last 7 years much stronger with Hart in goal, and the proof is in the pudding.
Stuart.

I have no inside knowledge,but perhaps his ability between the sticks wasnt the primary reason for his departure.

Anyway....lets not forget,this is the Bravo thread,cheers.

 

[Kempy93:20]

I have no inside knowledge,but perhaps his ability between the sticks wasnt the primary reason for his departure.

Anyway....lets not forget,this is the Bravo thread,cheers.

Ok, fair enough.
In Pep we trust etc.

 

[SWP's back]

Prior to his arrival, everyone salivated at the thought of him becoming our boss. They yearned for his forward thinking tactical brilliance. We all knew he was different and we all knew that he would drag English football into the 21st century so its all the more perplexing to see some of them up in arms over it all.

"Pissing around with it" as a few have now called it is absolutely key in dragging the opposition on so as to create the space for us to attack and exploit. To enable that a goalkeeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet is also key and Pep isnt going to change that need any time soon.

We won 5-1 last night, end of and for Bravo's poor attempt at a save we could spend hours dissecting every other player out there and some of their mistakes as well if we are going to go down that road.

Get behind Pep, his players, his method and for fucks sake, just enjoy it because at times its spectacular and its beautiful.

Great post mate. Should be a sticky.

 

[SWP's back]

when that is supposedly what Hart has been moved out because of

Well that's another question isn't it. If one believes that's the sole or even main reason.

Apologies to FI.

Re Bravo, he has two choices, either he regains his career long form sharpish or we bring in a better keeper than can do both sides of what we require.

 

[Kempy93:20]

Well that's another question isn't it. If one believes that's the sole or even main reason.

It is. (Another question)

 

[Rolee]

Would Pellegrini have got away with it? Shifting out a perfectly capable keeper who the players trust and who is in his prime, to be replaced by someone who can kick a ball better but is like a bowl of jelly when it comes to actual goal keeping? I doubt it. The same way he wouldn't have got away with selling Aguero and replacing him with Shane Long. Pep would have though, with some it seems.
Losing Hart and bringing in Bravo is a backwards step in your next phase for the club and squad line. Most can see it, yet the manager still defends him. The simple fact here is that he is wrong on this and there is no valid argument against that. This isn't La Liga and this supposed goal keeper we've been shafted with is not up to it in our league.

Of course he wouldn't get away with replacing Aguero with Long but that's not even remotely close to what's happened here. It would be akin to replacing Aguero with say Higuain and the latter failing to settle.

 

[Rolee]

I agree with most of that, the last bit especially, however a keeper is there to stop goals going into the net, and it's that simple. Whenever any opposing team is bearing down on goal and Bravo is in net, I have zero confidence in his ability to stop a goal, and if many of the fans feel that then I'm sure the defenders in front of him will too. It doesn't matter what they say in public, I'm not having it that they feel confident to do their job when they know the last man behind them isn't up to the task. Hart was, and it's telling that most prefer Willy now. How long ago was it he wasn't good enough and Hart should play every game? I'd also like to know why Willy has carte Blanche to kick the ball high when he wants, when that is supposedly what Hart has been moved out because of. The whole keeper situation is, for me, a needless mess seemingly created for a reason only Pep knows, and being disguised as that his kicking isn't good enough. We are and have been the last 7 years much stronger with Hart in goal, and the proof is in the pudding.
Stuart.

Willy doesn't have carte blanche to kick high when he wants, he, just like Bravo, is instructed to play it short when they can but to use their best judgement as to when it's best to do so.

 

[toffee balls]

If I may add my ten peneth , there is no doubt about his ability with the ball at his feet.
He is second to none and some of his chipped passes are just sublime.
I am now very comfortable with the team playing from the back to the point where if we went back to Joe's aimless punts up into no mans land
I think we would all be livid.We have moved forward and I love it.

However , the haunted look on Bravo's face as shot after shot continue to ripple in the back of the net is a massive concern.
It is destroying defensive confidence and that is why Pep pulled him last month.

Claudio has a huge pre season ahead of him. He needs dig very deep to somehow find that shot saving ability which has taken him to the very top of his profession.

He is going to need our support to have any chance.

 

[Kempy93:20]

Of course he wouldn't get away with replacing Aguero with Long but that's not even remotely close to what's happened here. It would be akin to replacing Aguero with say Higuain and the latter failing to settle.

I disagree with that. We had a goal keeper, a really good one who would get into most of the other top teams had they already not got excellent keepers themselves. We've replaced him with someone who stands between the sticks and can pass the ball better than his predecessor, but that's pretty much it.
The comparison to the strikers was that we have a low centre of gravity striker who scored plenty, and replacing him with long would give us the same kind of striker but who doesn't do his job that well - score goals.
Another way to look at it is, if another club had got rid of Hart for Bravo and the same performances had happened, would you sit there understanding why he was brought in or would you laugh at that situation?

 

[TonyM]

I was reading this at lunchtime and came up with a much longer post in my head, but the crux is I find it almost equally as poor that when you strip away the dressing on most of these posts, the reality is that most people aren't pissed off about this because of the treatment of Bravo, but rather because they think it matters that rags/dippers and the media will jump on it and "rub it in our face" and they'll become embarrassed, like it's somehow new from City fans or people in general.

A month ago I would have come on and vented about it, but last night I sat there, didn't like it, but understood it, and they have a point. I don't like the way they express it, but hey many City players including Willy have had the same or worse stick, and it's up to them to make something of it and swim, like Willy has.

Bravo seems to be taking it on the chin, but Pep once again just doesn't get it. He may have been given a version of our history, but he doesn't get us or it.

I certainly won't criticise those who did it to defend those who have got a precious little attitude that somehow we're all morally superior and that's what we have that's better than all the rest. It isn't, we aren't some model of perfection. It's like the casual rags projection of success on their meaningless lives, it's just pitiful.

Good post. I don't like the jeering but your so right to say that we are no better or worse that any other club's fans.

I often think us fans are too precious. I rarely agree with the perceived disrespect by players for saying or doing or not saying or not doing something. The Yaya stuff a few summers back was like this.

IMO following any sport is a teeny teeny bit weird and not governed by much sense. Only the people that play the sports or help them are natural. So we are prone to a bit of melodrama in the stands and on the forums and day to day. I include myself in this obviously. For example why am I still typing this and not getting to work on time?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Of course he wouldn't get away with replacing Aguero with Long but that's not even remotely close to what's happened here. It would be akin to replacing Aguero with say Higuain and the latter failing to settle.

It's not really akin to replacing Aguero though, as he is one of the very few world class players in the PL. Neither of the aforementioned goalkeepers are any where near approaching world class and never will be. Hopefully Bravo pops into the confidence shop in the summer but, if he doesn't, another answer will be found. In the meantime, having a go at the fella on here is obviously not a problem but having a go whilst he's playing for City? Not right I'm afraid (not just Bravo but anyone playing for City) and never will be.