My apologies. 30
It's Quiet - a new dawn
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Mostly get worse. Very few get better.
He's a leader and we desperately need one at the back. I really think you're being too negative on this one.
Out of curiosity; if you were to pick a gettable and highly experienced CB, while at the same time being a leader type, who would it be?
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BlueDeadHead
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I think you just hit the nail on the head. You are comparing elite professional athletes to yourself. After 30 footballers generally start to decline. Its a fact.
Delphacito
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So the rumour on Twitter of Bonucci telling his teammates that he'd still like to play for Pep is true or that City ain't giving up?
Lancet Fluke
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I think the key word in his post was "generally".
I think the decline is far less obvious in central defence, in fact i'd argue a lot of the best central defenders have had their best years in their late 20's and 30's. They're the guys that depend less on physicality and more on intelligence
Although i take the point playing central defence in our team is probably more physically demanding than for Juve, or most teams. However i think that physical demand should be reduced as the team hopefully gets better at Guardiola's principles (ball retention and pressing).
Delphacito
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Cannavaro also won the Ballon d' Or when he was 33.
Vinny, leaving or retiring?
You mentioned about Lukaku, but there have been a lot of rumours about Lorente at Swansea, heard anything?
Lancet Fluke
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Good for him. Don't get me wrong I would have no problems with us signing Bonucci, you judge each individual player on his own merits but I do think Bluedeadhead is correct, generally players tend to go into a decline to some extent once they hit 30, not all by any means but as a general rule, there's something to it.
Delphacito
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No worries, I get your point mate. But in terms of declining past 30, usually it starts from the front. Forwards > Wingers > Midfielders > Defenders > GK. Maldini and Zanetti was still one of the best in the world when they were on the end of their 30s. No reason Bonucci can't be that.
Lancet Fluke
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Agreed, you wouldn't worry about getting a keeper over 30 and not so much a central defender either. I reckon Bonucci is a fine player and in most respects exactly what we need. My main worry would be his lack of pace, he can read the game well which will help but with us defending with a high line I'd still worry that his lack of pace might get exposed and it's not like he's going to have a lightening quick partner to bail him out when this happens. Even if we totally get to grips with the way Pep wants us to play, on the occasions when we are attacked it is likely to be on the counter and with lots of our players caught upfield, for me we need at least one genuinely rapid central defender.
Your question is loaded and forces me into a false premise: I.e. we need "external experience" at a position.
Given that choice, sure Bonnuci certainly is a household name thatcomes to mind. And I'm not surprised many list him. I just don't think he's worth the money. Especially because there are many as good (or in my opinion) better who are way cheaper.
And if you ask me for the name of one right now who I think will be better for Pep's squad, philosophy and City's style? Vlad Chiriches at Napoli. Yup same guy who couldn't make the grade at Spurs a few years back.
Bit right now he is who I'd rather if I wanted an experienced CB. He is a better passer than Bonucci (shocking I know, folks make it sound like Bonnuci was the best thing since sliced bread) better tackler, harder worker too. Not to mention, he'll be 28 when he gets here (you know, the age Pep specifically mentioned :p)
But that's only if you force me to choose an experienced defender, which by the way I wouldn't seeing as we have Kompany, Otamendi, and Kolarov. All above, at it approaching 30. And chuck full of experience.
If I were to go for any CB at all it would be Marqhuinos at PSG. Who we should have probably nabbed when he wasn't getting playing time.
So in short, I'll take Vlad and Marqhuinos over Bonnuci every day of the week.
Fair enough, Dax. However, neither Chiriches nor Marquinhios strike me as leaders, and I really believe we need one, which is why I loaded the question the way I did.
I'm sick and tired of all the passengers in the team, and I would therefore like us to sign more players with leadership abilities. The CB position is a position which I believe at least one should be a leader, and with Stones still unexperienced, I believe he would develop faster with an experienced leader next to him. I would love to see that player being Kompany, but it does not look like that is going to happen. Bonucci therefore fits the bill for me.
You mention Otamendi and Kolarov, and while they're experienced, neither of them are leaders in the sense of keeping the defensive structure sound and instilling confidence in the backline. Marquinhos is too young to be that player IMO and Chiriches has already flopped once in the Premier League - who knows how he would cope with the league today. Whether he possesses leadership ability, I really can't say.
The reason why I skipped the leader part are 2 folds:
1. I don't buy Bonnuci as a leader. Certainly, no more so than Otamendi or Kolarov. It is something folks just ascribe to him generally. In reality, Chielini and Barzagli are far more describable as the leaders in that defense, than Bonucci. Who is simply the most talented with the pass. Bonnuci was often the youngest and least vocal member of the 5 man defense last year. With a back line of Barzagli, Leinsteiner, Chiellini, and Evra. Who exactly was he going to lead? That team probably ranked up there as one of the most experienced backline of all time. Bonnuci wasn't really leading anything.
2nd reason is bicos I think leadership comes from experience in the system. So either you are experienced in the Managers system, or the club, and to an even lesser degree, the league, it is highly unlikely you'd be leading. Bonucci is 0-3 on all those qualities.
If Bonucci came here I can assure you he'd be following Stones, not leading. Oh by the way, we already have a leader on defense. He's name is John Stones :)
Pep has been drilling Stones for a year, and you think some guy who has never been in the league or played in Pep system would come in and lead his backline? I doubt it.
Stones would lead that defense next year. Of that I have no doubts. And I'd rather a cheaper and in my opinion better ball passer in Chiriches come in and challenge Ota and Kolarov to partner John.
Let me put it this way, I think Ota will beat out Bonnuci if he came and Pep made it a fair fight.
dave_blue12
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I think with 2 new fullbacks our current central defenders look a lot better than they do now
Gundogan's Moustache
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My guess for the summer
Ederson
Henriches
Laporte/Bonucci
1 Left back (Kolarov will stay)
Fabinho
Dahoud
LW/RW
ST (If Aguero leaves)
Ederson
Henriches
Laporte/Bonucci
1 Left back (Kolarov will stay)
Fabinho
Dahoud
LW/RW
ST (If Aguero leaves)
JMason1996
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Exactly, i'd like to see stones and otamendi when they're not trying to cover 2 positions at once. Pace on the wings would help them massively imo
I think Kolarov will be a back up central defender now.
Ever since the new year Kolarov has barely played if played at all at left back as when he hasn't hasn't been playing as a central defender he has been on the bench.
For me, the Leicester away game made up Pep's mind regarding playing Aleks at left back ever again.
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