Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Ban-jani]

us and spain both nato members so the sabre rattling from howard is childish and unhelpful, we won't be going to war, not over a border dispute, unless may is a total fuckwit.

There is absolutely no way. It's been said as a sign of us not budging.

 

[cadds92]

us and spain both nato members so the sabre rattling from howard is childish and unhelpful, we won't be going to war, not over a border dispute, unless may is a total fuckwit.

Agree, albeit I won't rule out May threatening military action and possibly turning this into her Falklands if it really came to it.

It would be the absolute last resort though and would only happen if there was overwhelming support for Gibraltar to remain British which despite their electorate voting to remain in the EU, the talk is they most certainly want to remain under British rule.

 

[blueparrot]

Agree, albeit I won't rule out May threatening military action and possibly turning this into her Falklands if it really came to it.

It would be the absolute last resort though and would only happen if there was overwhelming support for Gibraltar to remain British which despite their electorate voting to remain in the EU, the talk is they most certainly want to remain under British rule.

I May have missed something here not seen much news this weekend. But has anybody from Spain or the EU mentioned taking Gibraltar back ?
From the bits I have seen its only been pointed out if we want a soft border for Gibraltar then like Ireland it needs to be negotiated , in this case with Spain. Which makes sense. It only seems to have blown up because Ireland as included in the letter and we ommited to mention Gibraltar, and we have been reminded.
Obviously if I've missed a threat to invade Gibraltar it will be pointed out to me. All this Falklands stuff just seems silly.

 

[Len Rum]

Mind the boiling water, mate. It might be hot.

Bloody hell, a fact from a Brexiter!

 

[Len Rum]

Do we need immigration in this country? Yes of course we do but it should be the exact same procedure that already exists in other countries like Australia where points are given dependant on the skill shortage the country needs to bridge.

If we need doctors then bring them in. If we need truck drivers bring them in, Bricklayers the same etc etc.

What we dont need and what we cant afford due to chronic pressures on housing and services is economic migrants with no skills whatsoever.

Those same rules would be applied to me if i wanted to go to Australia tomorrow or say New Zealand and not one poster on here would quibble with it so why the fuck cant we do the same and why the fuck is it racist to want the same?

Sounds great in theory.
Given that we're at "full employment" who is going to do these unskilled jobs ( agricultural work,food processing, restaurant and bar work etc etc) from the local populace AND do them well AND do them in expensive areas like London.
I'll tell you - nobody.
We're dependent on unskilled migrants as much as skilled ones.
So the remainer Home Secretary Amber Rudd ( who pulled up Bo Jo) in the referendum debates for falsely claiming 'reduction' in immigrant numbers should have no problem managing that situation.
You mentioned Australia and their control over immigration which is based on a points system. The Leave side promised this in the pre referendum debate but that has been dropped by the Remainer May.

 

[sir baconface]

Bloody hell, a fact from a Brexiter!

Your ejaculation is premature, my friend. I said it might be hot, which was posing a hypothesis rather than stating a fact.

;)

 

[sir baconface]

Sounds great in theory.
Given that we're at "full employment" who is going to do these unskilled jobs ( agricultural work,food processing, restaurant and bar work etc etc) from the local populace AND do them well AND do them in expensive areas like London.
I'll tell you - nobody.
We're dependent on unskilled migrants as much as skilled ones.
So the remainer Home Secretary Amber Rudd ( who pulled up Bo Jo) in the referendum debates for falsely claiming 'reduction' in immigrant numbers should have no problem managing that situation.
You mentioned Australia and their control over immigration which is based on a points system. The Leave side promised this in the pre referendum debate but that has been dropped by the Remainer May.

Ok, I'll bite.

Let's suppose the need is proven. Then that type of job can be filled on time-bound work permits. Therefore:

- No right of entry with a criminal record
- No automatic right to residency
- No automatic right to settle and bring families over
- No automatic right to benefits
- No right to stay if convicted of a criminal offence.

Do you begin to see any difference? If not, you failed to understand the referendum outcome by a greater margin than I thought.

 

[mcfc1632]

Truth is not the same as expediency, nor is it a prisoner of plebiscite.

What garbage - the 'truth' is that you (and others) cannot now accept the reality of what happened last summer - and you squirm in your attempts to face up to it.

This latest attempt to try and seem 'high-brow' IMO just makes you look like a right shallow dick

 

[blueinsa]

What garbage - the 'truth' is that you (and others) cannot now accept the reality of what happened last summer - and you squirm in you attempts to just face up to it.

This latest attempt to try and seem 'high-brow' IMO just makes you look like a right shallow dick

Good old fashioned plain English!

Excellent.

 

[sir baconface]

What garbage - the 'truth' is that you (and others) cannot now accept the reality of what happened last summer - and you squirm in you attempts to just face up to it.

This latest attempt to try and seem 'high-brow' IMO just makes you look like a right shallow dick

Hear, hear. Big words offer no camouflage.

 

[sir baconface]

Agree, albeit I won't rule out May threatening military action and possibly turning this into her Falklands if it really came to it.

It would be the absolute last resort though and would only happen if there was overwhelming support for Gibraltar to remain British which despite their electorate voting to remain in the EU, the talk is they most certainly want to remain under British rule.

Sorry mate but it is fanciful to think about military action. Like everything else, this will be settled either by negotiation of by us pulling out and going it alone.

 

[smudgedj]

I May have missed something here not seen much news this weekend. But has anybody from Spain or the EU mentioned taking Gibraltar back ?
From the bits I have seen its only been pointed out if we want a soft border for Gibraltar then like Ireland it needs to be negotiated , in this case with Spain. Which makes sense. It only seems to have blown up because Ireland as included in the letter and we ommited to mention Gibraltar, and we have been reminded.
Obviously if I've missed a threat to invade Gibraltar it will be pointed out to me. All this Falklands stuff just seems silly.

I've had a look into it and it seems it's in a draft of demands that will be discussed by member states next month. So it's a negotiation tactic (EU issuing threats as negotiation tactic. Who would have guessed) However this draft isn't aimed at the British negotiating team, it's aimed at the British public, as they are the only ones who can put pressure on Number 10

OMG OMG Don't take Gib off us, said no member of the British public ever; the British public are more likely to say 'Send a detactment of Royal Marine to Gib and let's see what happens'

The letter we sent wanted a parallel process: an exit deal and a free trade deal. The reply is 'Give us the money first' then if there is 'sufficient progress' (read it as sufficient cash) maybe we can talk about a free trade deal. The negotiations won’t be punitive. “Brexit itself is punitive enough,” Tusk said

It's also aimed at other EU members 'This is what happens when you cross Brussels' Take it bitch.



Of course the EU is a rules-based organisation bound by treaty and convention to negotiate in good faith. He wrote trying not to laugh.

Article 50 commits the EU to negotiate with any departing EU Member State

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

Article 8 commits the EU to a “good neighbourliness” policy 'founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation'

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th...ts/title-1-common-provisions/6-article-8.html

And Article 3 affirms the EU’s commitment to promoting 'free fair trade'

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th...ts/title-1-common-provisions/4-article-3.html

So that's the EU is ignoring it's own treaty obligations.

 

[The perfect fumble]

What garbage - the 'truth' is that you (and others) cannot now accept the reality of what happened last summer - and you squirm in you attempts to just face up to it.

This latest attempt to try and seem 'high-brow' IMO just makes you look like a right shallow dick

I don't attempt to be high brow, I am high brow.

You want something you will never get, blind obedience. I don't care whether 99.99% voted to leave, all that gives you is the right to leave, it does not give you the right to insist I agree with you and I don't.

Had remain won I wouldn't have expected you to change your mind and I'd have been happy for you to spout Europhobic bollocks to your hearts content.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Hear, hear. Big words offer no camouflage.

Thank god you never use any then! :-)

 

[sir baconface]

Thank god you never use any then! :-)

I know it's a Sunday evening but if that's the best you can do...

 

[The perfect fumble]

I know it's a Sunday evening but if that's the best you can do...

LOL...I'll have to up my game! Clearly my fans deserve only the best.

 

[sir baconface]

LOL...I'll have to up my game! Clearly my fans deserve only the best.

:-)

 

[Vic]

I've had a look into it and it seems it's in a draft of demands that will be discussed by member states next month. So it's a negotiation tactic (EU issuing threats as negotiation tactic. Who would have guessed) However this draft isn't aimed at the British negotiating team, it's aimed at the British public, as they are the only ones who can put pressure on Number 10

OMG OMG Don't take Gib off us, said no member of the British public ever; the British public are more likely to say 'Send a detactment of Royal Marine to Gib and let's see what happens'

The letter we sent wanted a parallel process: an exit deal and a free trade deal. The reply is 'Give us the money first' then if there is 'sufficient progress' (read it as sufficient cash) maybe we can talk about a free trade deal. The negotiations won’t be punitive. “Brexit itself is punitive enough,” Tusk said

It's also aimed at other EU members 'This is what happens when you cross Brussels' Take it bitch.



Of course the EU is a rules-based organisation bound by treaty and convention to negotiate in good faith. He wrote trying not to laugh.

Article 50 commits the EU to negotiate with any departing EU Member State

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

Article 8 commits the EU to a “good neighbourliness” policy 'founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation'

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th...ts/title-1-common-provisions/6-article-8.html

And Article 3 affirms the EU’s commitment to promoting 'free fair trade'

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th...ts/title-1-common-provisions/4-article-3.html

So that's the EU is ignoring it's own treaty obligations.

Seriously - you expect the EU to fall over itself to be a "good neighbour" when (according to some on here) we've just undermined their foundations!

 

[urban genie]

Oh my lord, some of our media need to get a grip.

We are in danger of being a laughing stock making threats of bravado over a load of old bollocks.




And before I am accused of being a bitter remainer, I ain't arsed about leaving the EU it's happening I am fine with it, but letting the clowns in the right wing media set the agenda is gonna set us up for a fall.

 

[cadds92]

Sorry mate but it is fanciful to think about military action. Like everything else, this will be settled either by negotiation of by us pulling out and going it alone.

I agree.

Military action just would cause havoc as it would bring us and Spain into conflict which would lead to NATO members taking sides.

All this is is posturing before we all get down to business debating the best possible outcomes, however I do think the EU potentially turning Brexit into a territorial dispute as well as a trade dispute has gone a little too far towards the extreme.