Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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Ha Ha, the facts are a drag to you mate aren't they?
"No deal is better than a bad deal", when we haven't even analysed the impact of no deal!
YCNMIU Jeff.
Keep yourself wrapped up in that red, white and blue (stars and stripes) flag.

Just to show how naive your position is, define a bad deal?

If I choose to look at the outcome of no deal and define a bad deal as being worse we can end this ridiculous discussion now and move on. But of course there is no chance of you moving on because you are still grieving. You appear to be somewhere between stage 2 and 3 in the Kübler-Ross model.
 
"There are no offerings from the EU to the UK" - that's because negotiations haven't started yet!

Yet you will claim nothing promised by the leavers has happened and use that as a stick to beat us with Len- that's because negotiations haven't started yet and we haven't left yet.

You cant have it both ways but on the point you took up, what exactly have the EU offered? They had a chance to offer something to Cameron yet they very arrogantly declined.
 
Just to show how naive your position is, define a bad deal?

If I choose to look at the outcome of no deal and define a bad deal as being worse we can end this ridiculous discussion now and move on. But of course there is no chance of you moving on because you are still grieving. You appear to be somewhere between stage 2 and 3 in the Kübler-Ross model.
Keep up mate.
I gave an example of a bad deal earlier on the thread i.e. tariff free deal on cars but everything else on WTO terms. That's a bad deal but it's better than no deal( everything on WTO terms)because at least trade in cars is free of tariff and non tariff barriers.
Simples!
 
Yet you will claim nothing promised by the leavers has happened and use that as a stick to beat us with Len- that's because negotiations haven't started yet and we haven't left yet.

You cant have it both ways but on the point you took up, what exactly have the EU offered? They had a chance to offer something to Cameron yet they very arrogantly declined.
Need to get my head round that one mate ( as the actress said) before I reply.
Just off to Tescos.
You'd be surprised how much fruit and veg comes from the EU.
 
Keep up mate.
I gave an example of a bad deal earlier on the thread i.e. tariff free deal on cars but everything else on WTO terms. That's a bad deal but it's better than no deal( everything on WTO terms)because at least trade in cars is free of tariff and non tariff barriers.
Simples!
Read the post again. You are making an a arbitrary decision on the definition of bad deal in order to promote your view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Keep up mate.
I gave an example of a bad deal earlier on the thread i.e. tariff free deal on cars but everything else on WTO terms. That's a bad deal but it's better than no deal( everything on WTO terms)because at least trade in cars is free of tariff and non tariff barriers.
Simples!

Except your wrong of course, because thats a perfect example of no deal being the better option for us.

No deal leaves the likes of BMW/Merc increasing in price (Or the company swallowing the tariff) while trying to compete with Jag/ Range Rover now at a price advantage in the luxury sector (Where the most money is made), right down to the basic models where price is a major factor for most car buyers, who have a good choice in "Home produced models", so it would far more likely boost our industry while reducing our trade deficit.
 
QUOTE="Len Rum, post: 10111114, member: 53634"]Need to get my head round that one mate ( as the actress said) before I reply.
Just off to Tescos.
You'd be surprised how much fruit and veg comes from the EU.[/QUOTE]

Think again! For fuck sake. Come on.

2gv1vk2.jpg
 
Pretty pathetic attempt at distraction from very valid points that

So you slag off the UK for preparing positions ahead of negotiations and then excuse the EU. They have very clearly set out their positions and 'offerings' which are as I described in my post

Your desperation is starting to make you come across a bit flaky IMO
 
Except your wrong of course, because thats a perfect example of no deal being the better option for us.

No deal leaves the likes of BMW/Merc increasing in price (Or the company swallowing the tariff) while trying to compete with Jag/ Range Rover now at a price advantage in the luxury sector (Where the most money is made), right down to the basic models where price is a major factor for most car buyers, who have a good choice in "Home produced models", so it would far more likely boost our industry while reducing our trade deficit.
When you say 'our' industry, you obviously mean Indian, German and Japanese industries, given they own Jaguar Land Rover, Mini and those 'basic' Nissan models. We could all buy Rollers and Bentleys, I suppose, but they're owned by BMW and VW, whilst the GM/Vauxhall marque is Opel owned. This no deal, when applied to the automotive industry at least, is starting to make sense now....
 
Condescending as usual.

What you dont get now and didn't get back when the vote happened is that the majority of people in this country now are sick and tired of the self proclaimed High brow elite like yourself and its the elitist, i know better attitude that is your downfall.

Lower Broughton 1957 and a half decent education, just enough to see beyond the tabloids and escape the prison of reactionary thought.
 
No, I mean "Ours" as in who has the jobs to make them as you well know, who owns those companies is just a red herring because the chances are those companies are owned in turn by global concerns one way or the other.

Our workers make them, the money is generated here no matter who owns the brand, that creates jobs not just in the support industries but right down to the shop those workers spend their money.
 
Lower Broughton 1957 and a half decent education, just enough to see beyond the tabloids and escape the prison of reactionary thought.

Yet the other day you delighted in claiming you where "High Brow"?

You think you are better than anyone who voted to leave. It pours from virtually every single post you make on this subject.

Much of the vote remain campaign shared the same trait and like I've explained, its why you lost.

The majority not only dont share your views, they completely and utterly reject them and the condescension that follows just rubber stamps that position.
 
Need to get my head round that one mate ( as the actress said) before I reply.
Just off to Tescos.
You'd be surprised how much fruit and veg comes from the EU.
Not really as food imported from outside EU has rather punitive EU imposed tariffs. This is the EU which is moving to harmonising VAT throughout the EU meaning that eventually we will be having 20% VAT on food.
 
I have very unruly brows if left too long. As for how people reacting to our opening gambit re brexit?


This just in

xkyblk.jpg
 
Not really as food imported from outside EU has rather punitive EU imposed tariffs. This is the EU which is moving to harmonising VAT throughout the EU meaning that eventually we will be having 20% VAT on food.
I tried explaining to a young snowflake recently, who thinks leaving means hating everyone, that her egalitarian
view of the world was not supported by being in the EU. Dirt poor farmers in Africa, slaving their guts out to produce
foods to sell for hard currency, have massive tariffs slapped on their produce by this organisation, as it needs to protect
inefficient French and other producers from competition.
So all the wailing and weeping, and handy holdy togetherness really means, bollocks to them, they're just poor people.
 
I tried explaining to a young snowflake recently, who thinks leaving means hating everyone, that her egalitarian
view of the world was not supported by being in the EU. Dirt poor farmers in Africa, slaving their guts out to produce
foods to sell for hard currency, have massive tariffs slapped on their produce by this organisation, as it needs to protect
inefficient French and other producers from competition.
So all the wailing and weeping, and handy holdy togetherness really means, bollocks to them, they're just poor people.

It's hard to explain to the flakies that it’s a protection racket to subsidise German industry, French farmers and Brussels' bureaucrats.
 
It's hard to explain to the flakies that it’s a protection racket to subsidise German industry, French farmers and Brussels' bureaucrats.

And it's equally difficult trying to explain to the Bluemoon Populist Front that it's about so much more than that.

20r0dpu.jpg


We'll call it a draw.
 
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Yet the other day you delighted in claiming you where "High Brow"?

You think you are better than anyone who voted to leave. It pours from virtually every single post you make on this subject.

Much of the vote remain campaign shared the same trait and like I've explained, its why you lost.

The majority not only dont share your views, they completely and utterly reject them and the condescension that follows just rubber stamps that position.

Yep, I did.

Read this....

Brexit committee warns of impact of no deal being reached

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39482530

I assume you look at the membership of the Brexit Committee and see nothing but remoaner sabotage, and that is the difference between us.

I see a confirmation of the disaster that awaits us, not because I voted remain, I'm not an uncritical fan of the EU, but because the facts point very strongly in that direction.

There is a terrible sense of inferiority in here displayed by quite a few leave posters but it boils down to this, leave is not a rational choice it is an emotional one. It is no less valid for it but it is not based on facts, on economic self interest, or even a rationale analysis of our role in the world. It is based on a "sense" of destiny a "feeling" that the EU is about to collapse, a "yearning" to be free from something or other wrapped in a burning negative "view" of the nature and structure of the EU.

No leaver here knows what our negotiators are striving for over in Brussels because no one knows what a "good deal" looks like, but the facts point out there is no good deal only a choice between terrible and a disaster.

Leavers say our trade deficit with the EU will save us because the rest of the EU will want to continue to sell to us but then they conveniently forget about that very same trade deficit (which is a testimony to UK failure) in a post Brexit world and instead focus on how we're going to morph in to a glorious centre of global free trade, all the while pathetically bigging up potential trade deals with New Zealand and Australia.

Leavers cheer on the government when they threaten to turn this Island in to an offshore tax haven without thinking through what the implications of that would be for ordinary men and women. Leavers applaud a bonfire of red tape without understanding what that red tape is and how in many respects it protects workers from a legion of Mike Ashleys

Leavers castigate the SNP for agitating for a referendum when it was their decision to leave that opened up this political opportunity for the Scottish nationalists, perversely many leavers on here seem to welcome the idea of a break up of the United Kingdom.

The decision to leave has also opened up the very real prospect of a united Ireland, but leavers don't seem to care about that either.

The leave decision has carved up regional divisions, divisions between city and countryside and perhaps most disastrous of all a gap between young and old.

You might say this is typical remoaner pessimism and you might be right, but it is a least facts based pessimism.

All I see from leavers in here is petty reactionary nonsense, no optimism based in facts just a hotchpotch of Europhobic nonsense and a triumphalist "we won, you lost, fuck off". Against that backdrop you're right, I do look down on the leavers, not because I occupy some delusional high ground but because I'm grounded in a facts based world and too many leavers in here are in a gutter of bullshit and jingoism and seem intent on dragging me and others down with them.

That is why there's no love lost, that is why there's no healing, no national will, no coming together, that is why accusations that remoaners are hoping for a bad outcome from these negotiations is bullshit. Remainers are not hoping for a bad outcome, they know there will be a bad outcome, because the facts tell us there is not the slightest possibility of a good outcome, only least worst.

But there I go again, talking my nation down and on and on it goes.
 
I tried explaining to a young snowflake recently, who thinks leaving means hating everyone, that her egalitarian
view of the world was not supported by being in the EU. Dirt poor farmers in Africa, slaving their guts out to produce
foods to sell for hard currency, have massive tariffs slapped on their produce by this organisation, as it needs to protect
inefficient French and other producers from competition.
So all the wailing and weeping, and handy holdy togetherness really means, bollocks to them, they're just poor people.
And mostly poor black people being kept impoverished to subsidise mostly affluent white people. You could even say their position is racist, but I'd never want to throw such a heavy word around, I'm sure they'd never stoop so low. Hopefully once we're free of the shackles, we can remove the tariffs and help some of the world's poorest. Got to feel sorry for those French farmers though ;)
 
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