Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Magicpole]

Smashing..

Yes, yes, but are they organic?[/QUOTE]

Yes they are. I checked obviously before getting behind them.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Great speech, particularly for those who have no memory of where we were as a country back in 1973....

 

[blueinsa]

Great speech, particularly for those who have no memory of where we were as a country back in 1973....

Guy Verhofstadt eh?

You have lost the fucking plot lol

 

[The perfect fumble]

Guy Verhofstadt eh?

You have lost the fucking plot lol

You always go for the man.

 

[hilts]

Great speech, particularly for those who have no memory of where we were as a country back in 1973....

Eu politician in no self awareness speech shock. The fact these are his views on the current situation should make right minded remainers feel a bit queasy. The knob jockeys will no doubt eat this shit for breakfast,lunch and tea.

 

[blueinsa]

You always go for the man.

No I'm going for the EU and its oh so superior i know best attitude that people like Guy espouses and people like yourself are completely subservient too.

Its absolutely spectacular the lack of self awareness shown by them and their followers as to what the reasons where behind us voting to leave it really is.

Nobody hates the EU and if it did what it said on the tin, who wouldn't want to be a member with all the benefits but it doesn't do what it says on the tin because they are all too busy lying about its intended goals and aims and they are busy destroying or attempting to destroy Europe's Nation states to get what they want and to fuck with everyone that disagrees with them.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Eu politician in no self awareness speech shock. The fact these are his views on the current situation should make right minded remainers feel a bit queasy. The knob jockeys will no doubt eat this shit for breakfast,lunch and tea.

Is this Esperanto?

 

[The perfect fumble]

No I'm going for the EU and its oh so superior i know best attitude that people like Guy espouses and people like yourself are completely subservient too.

Its absolutely spectacular the lack of self awareness shown by them and their followers as to what the reasons where behind us voting to leave it really is.

Nobody hates the EU and if it did what it said on the tin, who wouldn't want to be a member with all the benefits but it doesn't do what it says on the tin because they are all too busy lying about its intended goals and aims and they are busy destroying or attempting to destroy Europe's Nation states to get what they want and to fuck with everyone that disagrees with them.

Self awareness! Not an attribute that I normally associate with leavers, but we live and learn.

 

[blueinsa]

Self awareness! Not an attribute that I normally associate with leavers, but we live and learn.

Lets take freedom of movement, the cornerstone of the EU and all it stands for.

Why is it after the huge investment from the EU into countries like Poland are they facing a huge crisis with depopulation as they move for economic and social reasons in their millions to countries like ours?

Is that evidence of the EU doing things right?

 

[hilts]

Self awareness! Not an attribute that I normally associate with leavers, but we live and learn.

Live and learn the irony of that is quite amusing.

 

[mcfc1632]

Sounds like a plan.

Indeed and it is exactly what Benn and others(Mandelson, Major, Blair etc.) are seeking to achieve

Therefore you should not be surprised when people that have moved on and are supporting the government in getting the best outcome from the negotiations can see though the machinations to undermine the UK and speak against them

 

[mcfc1632]

Guy Verhofstadt eh?

You have lost the fucking plot lol

Strange how GV posts out that:

"Its important in politics, as in life to try new partnerships, new horizons..........." and the UK is being lambasted for seeking to do exactly that.

What a lot of Remainers seem unwilling to contemplate is the manner in which the planned economic/trading block has been hijacked. Assiduously (and insidiously)over decades and through backdoor treaties it has been shaped by the ideologies of the federalists.

Globalisation, federalism, nationalism - I am not saying any of these are the right or wrong model, but the EU has been morphed by the aims of a relatively few individuals to meet the objectives and strategies of a limited set of stakeholders to the detriment of the rest. We have had an unexpected chance to break away from this abusive model and it will be a great shame if we are 'not allowed' to take it.

 

[mcfc1632]

Is this Esperanto?

You always go for the man........ Hypocrisy?

Made sense to me

 

[blueinsa]

Strange how GV posts out that:

"Its important in politics, as in life to try new partnerships, new horizons..........." and the UK is being lambasted for seeking to do exactly that.

What a lot of Remainers seem unwilling to contemplate is the manner in which the planned economic/trading block has been hijacked. Assiduously (and insidiously)over decades and through backdoor treaties it has been shaped by the ideologies of the federalists.

Globalisation, federalism, nationalism - I am not saying any of these are the right or wrong model, but the EU has been morphed by the aims of a relatively few individuals to meet the objectives and strategies of a limited set of stakeholders to the detriment of the rest. We have had an unexpected chance to break away from this abusive model and it will be a great shame if we are 'not allowed' to take it.

I have asked the question twice now today and not one person has answered mate on why if the EU is so great and the money they have ploughed into countries like Poland are their citizens still moving out in their millions for economic and social reasons to countries like ours?

Freedom of movement sounds magnificent but it also means depopulation/emigration which is far far worse than immigration ever could be and the fact its happening on a huge scale within the EU tells me their policies dont work and people dont want to know them.

 

[mcfc1632]

I have asked the question twice now today and not one person has answered mate on why if the EU is so great and the money they have ploughed into countries like Poland are their citizens still moving out in their millions for economic and social reasons to countries like ours?

Freedom of movement sounds magnificent but it also means depopulation/emigration which is far far worse than immigration ever could be and the fact its happening on a huge scale within the EU tells me their policies dont work and people dont want to know them.

An associated problem that I see for the richer nations such as the UK is the way the EU model will drive a 'race to the middle ground'. They take from the UK to give to the poorer nations - sounds great but I would rather that we ran our own overseas aid budget.

As laudable as the aims may be the logical consequence is that the UK will become increasingly drained and burdened through emigration until things are levelled out and there are no longer economic and social incentives for the emigration to take place. What could achieve that? logically that the UK would have been dragged down so that it is no longer the 'emigration location of choice'.

UK citizens will wish for everyone to get a 'leg up', but not at the cost of the UK being dragged inexorably down. They did not select that journey in 1975 and they have rejected it in 2016. For the UK it is all give and no take. Germany gives a lot but receives a lot in control and influence - we receive only contempt and that has been the case for decades.

 

[blueinsa]

An associated problem that I see for the richer nations such as the UK is the way the EU model will drive a 'race to the middle ground'. They take from the UK to give to the poorer nations - sounds great but I would rather that we ran our own overseas aid budget.

As laudable as the aims may be the logical consequence is that the UK will become increasingly drained and burdened through emigration until things are levelled out and there are no longer economic and social incentives for the emigration to take place. What could achieve that? logically that the UK would have been dragged down so that it is no longer the 'emigration location of choice'.

UK citizens will wish for everyone to get a 'leg up', but not at the cost of the UK being dragged inexorably down. They did not select that journey in 1975 and they have rejected it in 2016. For the UK it is all give and no take. Germany gives a lot but receives a lot in control and influence - we receive only contempt and that has been the case for decades.

Absolutely agree.

 

[inchy14]

I have asked the question twice now today and not one person has answered mate on why if the EU is so great and the money they have ploughed into countries like Poland are their citizens still moving out in their millions for economic and social reasons to countries like ours?

Freedom of movement sounds magnificent but it also means depopulation/emigration which is far far worse than immigration ever could be and the fact its happening on a huge scale within the EU tells me their policies dont work and people dont want to know them.

I asked a similar question in the original Brexit thread, why do these people want to leave their own countries if the EU is so great and is bringing prosperity to them all? Furthermore, and this one really gets ignored, can someone please enlighten me as to what will happen to these countries who are losing huge swathes of young hard working people in the long run?

Now to me, and i'm far from an expert in any of this, surely all that will happen is investment will leave these countries as the young workers have all moved on to better things, or they'll have to import more cheap labour from even poorer countries which will then have a knock on effect to those poorer countries, and then those countries in turn will further stagnate as everyone is rushing up the ladder.
I voted out and one of the reasons was that surely this will eventually be unsustainable to the weaker countries of Europe and have a ripple effect on the rest of the EU with continual bailouts.

 

[blueinsa]

I asked a similar question in the original Brexit thread, why do these people want to leave their own countries if the EU is so great and is bringing prosperity to them all? Furthermore, and this one really gets ignored, can someone please enlighten me as to what will happen to these countries who are losing huge swathes of young hard working people in the long run?

Now to me, and i'm far from an expert in any of this, surely all that will happen is investment will leave these countries as the young workers have all moved on to better things, or they'll have to import more cheap labour from even poorer countries which will then have a knock on effect to those poorer countries, and then those countries in turn will further stagnate as everyone is rushing up the ladder.
I voted out and one of the reasons was that surely this will eventually be unsustainable to the weaker countries of Europe and have a ripple effect on the rest of the EU with continual bailouts.

Much like the Euro zone is geared towards allowing the big economy's to effectively call the shots for the rest with self interest very much at the heart of what they do, freedom of movement will also do the same and as you rightly say, countries like Poland are going to see a crisis through depopulation that no amount of EU subsidy will cover economically and it will lead to further cheap labour having to come in to bridge gaps and for me, countries like Germany and France who are doing the bail outs only doing so on the proviso more and more power is signed over to them.

Its almost conquest by the back door and for the life of me im amazed more just cant see what is going on?

 

[mcfc1632]

Much like the Euro zone is geared towards allowing the big economy's to effectively call the shots for the rest with self interest very much at the heart of what they do, freedom of movement will also do the same and as you rightly say, countries like Poland are going to see a crisis through depopulation that no amount of EU subsidy will cover economically and it will lead to further cheap labour having to come in to bridge gaps and for me, countries like Germany and France who are doing the bail outs only doing so on the proviso more and more power is signed over to them.

Its almost conquest by the back door and for the life of me im amazed more just cant see what is going on?

There is a largely unspoken about undercurrent of financial and economic calamity with regard the Euro Zone - and what will be the consequences when there is a crisis.

I read earlier that - "...............recent German aid to Greece has exceeded 60% of Greece's GDP, and total European assistance to Greece is now above 200% of Greek GDP."

How is that going to pan out? When and where will the default occur and how much will need to be written off - Greece does not seem to be on some 'clear road back to prosperity'.

And of course there is Italy and so on......

We are not in the Euro Zone, but we are not immune from the impacts of it failings - 2015 taught us just how readily the EU can exert powers to place 'ad-hoc' levies on the UK to help where there is a budgetary shortfall.

We need clear water between us and their regulations and control

 

[mcfc1632]

There is a largely unspoken about undercurrent of financial and economic calamity with regard the Euro Zone - and what will be the consequences when there is a crisis.

I read earlier that - "...............recent German aid to Greece has exceeded 60% of Greece's GDP, and total European assistance to Greece is now above 200% of Greek GDP."

How is that going to pan out? When and where will the default occur and how much will need to be written off - Greece does not seem to be on some 'clear road back to prosperity'.

And of course there is Italy and so on......

We are not in the Euro Zone, but we are not immune from the impacts of it failings - 2015 taught us just how readily the EU can exert powers to place 'ad-hoc' levies on the UK to help where there is a budgetary shortfall.

And re your comment: ".........countries like Germany and France who are doing the bail outs only doing so on the proviso more and more power is signed over to them.

Its almost conquest by the back door and for the life of me I'm amazed more just cant see what is going on?"

there are already soundings from the ECB that national assets, e.g. gold, should be used for security against the bailouts.

We need clear water between us and their regulations and control[/QUOTE]