Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[blueinsa]

There is a largely unspoken about undercurrent of financial and economic calamity with regard the Euro Zone - and what will be the consequences when there is a crisis.

I read earlier that - "...............recent German aid to Greece has exceeded 60% of Greece's GDP, and total European assistance to Greece is now above 200% of Greek GDP."

How is that going to pan out? When and where will the default occur and how much will need to be written off - Greece does not seem to be on some 'clear road back to prosperity'.

And of course there is Italy and so on......

We are not in the Euro Zone, but we are not immune from the impacts of it failings - 2015 taught us just how readily the EU can exert powers to place 'ad-hoc' levies on the UK to help where there is a budgetary shortfall.

We need clear water between us and their regulations and control

Its not unfortunate circumstance though or bad luck.

Its all planned imo as the joining of countries with such huge differences in economies and scale of was so ridiculous a thing to even contemplate at the beginning, it beggars belief.

Its sinister, Im glad we are no part of it, im pleased the majority have seen through whats going on and in the years to come, im certain even those that dont agree now will share that view, even if silently.

 

[Magicpole]

Much like the Euro zone is geared towards allowing the big economy's to effectively call the shots for the rest with self interest very much at the heart of what they do, freedom of movement will also do the same and as you rightly say, countries like Poland are going to see a crisis through depopulation that no amount of EU subsidy will cover economically and it will lead to further cheap labour having to come in to bridge gaps and for me, countries like Germany and France who are doing the bail outs only doing so on the proviso more and more power is signed over to them.

Its almost conquest by the back door and for the life of me im amazed more just cant see what is going on?

The possibility that once we are out, that similar to Poland, our young people, who voted overwhelmingly to remain might fuck off too? What then?

Plus if the hardliners are listened to we won't be able to replace them on our fantasy island as we won't let them in. Unlike Poland.

Your ability to see genuine economic problems in others. but somehow negate to acknowledfe it could happen to us is astounding in the field of selective retention. It will also be more difficult to solve once we tell the world we think they are all cunts and why don't you all fuck if back to where you came from, sort of vibe that has been hanging around.

Who wants to go somewhere people hate you?

Why would the best come here anyway? Not until we knew what the fuck we are doing at least.

The consequences of a shit economy bleeding it's best to more enlightened parts of the world, is our future too for at least ten years. The young vited to remain, in the end they may well be the ones who leave.

We will be left with all the cunts who can't get jobs now and who find communicating in English far more difficult than people who learned it twice a week at school.

But that's not their fault, it's obviously that Latvian **** who actually has a work ethic and went to school.

 

[blueinsa]

The possibility that once we are out, that similar to Poland, our young people, who voted overwhelmingly to remain might fuck off too? What then?

Where are they going to and what jobs?

Yet again your harping on about us blaming some latvian etc because your trying to deflect and your not actually listening to what is being said and asked.

Given the Scale of investment into economies and countries like Poland and all things EU being so good, why are millions of their population leaving for economic and social reasons and coming to countries like ours that if we listened to you is packed full of racists?

 

[sir baconface]

Lets take freedom of movement, the cornerstone of the EU and all it stands for.

Why is it after the huge investment from the EU into countries like Poland are they facing a huge crisis with depopulation as they move for economic and social reasons in their millions to countries like ours?

Is that evidence of the EU doing things right?

Although we are fellow Brexiteers, I'm afraid I don't follow your line of thought here. Surely the answer is that they started so far behind us that they can still earn a lot more in the UK. (And therefore save money to send home or do something useful with on their return. )

 

[Magicpole]

Where are they going to and what jobs?

Yet again your harping on about us blaming some latvian etc because your trying to deflect and your not actually listening to what is being said and asked.

Given the Scale of investment into economies and countries like Poland and all things EU being so good, why are millions of their population leaving for economic and social reasons and coming to countries like ours that if we listened to you is packed full of racists?

Because up until brexut and the rise in racial abuse unleashed by it, it was a better place. Polish people are returning home in greater numbers.

How many leave, taking into account the millions who don't give a fuck about education left to fill the gaps.

Nirvana indeed.

 

[blueinsa]

Although we are fellow Brexiteers, I'm afraid I don't follow your line of thought here. Surely the answer is that they started so far behind us that they can still earn a lot more in the UK. (And therefore save money to send home or do something useful with on their return. )

Which begs the question as to what exactly is happening to the 106 Billion Euro Poland was given in the 2014-2020 EU budget?

At what point does it kick in and start to work and by that time, given the emigration and depopulation that is currently happening, who is going to do the work that is needed over there?

its an absolute clusterfuck.

 

[blueinsa]

Because up until brexut and the rise in racial abuse unleashed by it, it was a better place.

Give over ffs MP you are better than that and more intelligent!

 

[Magicpole]

Give over ffs MP you are better than that and more intelligent!

Have a read at this and tell me exactly how brexit will help those people who felt left behind.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

 

[blueinsa]

Have a read at this and tell me exactly how brexit will help those people who felt left behind.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

Tell me how much the last 40 years has changed the lives of the ordinary man in the street?

We haven't even left yet and your pointing fingers and appointing blame when nothing has changed.

We are still a member of the EU and we still pay in so that propaganda piece is worthless im afraid.

 

[CityStu]

Have a read at this and tell me exactly how brexit will help those people who felt left behind.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

It gives them an opportunity to vote for a party who can focus on their issues, without their hands being tied by EU policy. I don't think there is currently a party that does focus on their issues (shame on Labour) but there's a massive gap in the market there for a party to move into.

EDIT: Also, you should qualify how EU membership was benefiting those people.

 

[Magicpole]

Give over ffs MP you are better than that and more intelligent!

Do you know any foreign people here? I worked in a school and met many parents who were scared of what it meant.

They also all said they felt safer here than their friends did in other parts of the U.K. This is backed up by research.

It's a big deal to me and gives us a gloss I don't think we are or deserve to be.

I repeat why would talented people who could help our economy choose to come here when they perceive brexit as anti them?

 

[blueinsa]

Just one example of what im saying and i see nothing from the EU that will solve the upcoming crisis.

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...s-they-woo-back-workers-or-recruit-immigrants

 

[Magicpole]

It gives them an opportunity to vote for a party who can focus on their issues, without their hands being tied by EU policy. I don't think there is currently a party that does focus on their issues (shame on Labour) but there's a massive gap in the market there for a party to move into.

EDIT: Also, you should qualify how EU membership was benefiting those people.

Successive Tory and Labour govs have fucjed up those regions not the eu.

A whole plethora of legislation that protects people is here because of the EU.

The companies based there may trade with our eu partners.

Look at Cornwall. Voted leave then asked if they still get all the Eyrooean Development cash?

You couldn't make it up

 

[blueinsa]

Do you know any foreign people here? I worked in a school and met many parents who were scared of what it meant.

They also all said they felt safer here than their friends did in other parts of the U.K. This is backed up by research.

It's a big deal to me and gives us a gloss I don't think we are or deserve to be.

I repeat why would talented people who could help our economy choose to come here when they perceive brexit as anti them?

MP i completely and utterly reject the argument you are trying to put across that as a country, immigrants are facing racism and xenophobia on such a scale and are in fear as you put it.

As for your question. They are coming here in their hundreds of thousands and they are leaving huge skill and population gaps in their own countries that are a crisis in the making despite Billions of Euros in subsidies and countless further billions that wont fix what is a human issue.

 

[mcfc1632]

Where are they going to and what jobs?

Yet again your harping on about us blaming some latvian etc because your trying to deflect and your not actually listening to what is being said and asked.

Given the Scale of investment into economies and countries like Poland and all things EU being so good, why are millions of their population leaving for economic and social reasons and coming to countries like ours that if we listened to you is packed full of racists?

Well done, I could not summon up the will to respond

That was definitely not your best work MP

 

[Magicpole]

MP i completely and utterly reject the argument you are trying to put across that as a country, immigrants are facing racism and xenophobia on such a scale and are in fear as you put it.

As for your question. They are coming here in their hundreds of thousands and they are leaving huge skill and population gaps in their own countries that are a crisis in the making despite Billions of Euros in subsidies and countless further billions that wont fix what is a human issue.

I'm telling you how people are feeling. I accept that this perception will be a distortion of how things are, as the vast man if our people are decent. But it has given the worst among us a perceived justification for hurling abuse.

These are the stories that make the headlines and the perception is reinforced.

 

[CityStu]

Successive Tory and Labour govs have fucjed up those regions not the eu.

A whole plethora of legislation that protects people is here because of the EU.

The companies based there may trade with our eu partners.

Look at Cornwall. Voted leave then asked if they still get all the Eyrooean Development cash?

You couldn't make it up

Just as the SNP are currently fucking up Scotland ;-) I don't associate myself with any single political party, but I recognise that the majority of Leave voters (working class) are not meaningfully represented in Westminster. Leaving the EU allows new or existing political parties to legislate more flexibly to allow them to focus more on that demographic.

The UK goes above and beyond lots of EU legislation, particularly on worker's rights. We also had these rights before joining the EU. I don't expect these to change after Brexit, but if they do then I expect those suggesting them will be rejected by the electorate.

I believe European Development cash is best kept locally or nationally. I remember in the shock after the result, the BBC had a reporter somewhere in Wales that was a massive recipient of 'EU' cash but had voted heavily to leave. Behind the reporter was an EU commissioned statue. No wonder they voted out if all they saw of 'EU' cash was money invested in shitty sculptures rather than jobs/education/health/transport in the area. The EU is very very vain, which is at odds with every out voter I've spoken to.

 

[purplenose]

Have you any understanding about European history? If you did you will notice we don't have wars anymore. That the living standards of all have improved. That to engender a feeling of connection leads to understanding. That the Eu might need a lot of reform but that it could be improved.

That globalisation requires economic strength to not be consumed by it. That we need these people to help our country bit just function but to prosper.

That even now they are back tracking on immigration as it is a fundamental requirement for economic growth. That the failure to engage with education for many people renders them unemployable and that this is the single biggest contribution to being out of work.

For me, leaving is retreating into an era I was glad we left. Seems 52% of the entire uk disagrees. I take comfort in the fact 62% of us up here share my view.

We will be stuck with brexit and tories forever going back the way and people wonder why we want a vote on that?

We might decide to remain in the uk under this new reality. It looks that way to me, but, I hope not.

I am very familiar with European history. How on earth can you claim there are no wars anymore. I assume you mean there hasnt been any wars in much of Europe of late? We may have avoided any major European conflicts for the best part of a century but that has largely been down to the nuclear weapons making serious disputes between the major powers virtually impossible.

Despite this during the time of the EU there has been the bloody conflicts in the Balkans and numerous flare ups in Eastern Europe, and am not sure what you would class what is going on in the Ukraine.

You might want to study the break up of Yugoslavia and why it happened. The EU is hell bent on creating a giant Yugoslavia, well it doesnt work.

What do you think will happen in Eastern Europe when they force those countries to accept refugees? What do you think will happen to them? There may be no real danger of Germany invading France again, there is little chance of Putin doing anything beyond a little bit of land grabbing in Ukraine and maybe the caucaus. If however the EU managed to become one big state and was distanced by the Yanks, Putin might well become a real problem.

As much as I would love to think there will not be wars in Europe in the future, the truth is there will be and I think the EU is making that more rather than less likely.

 

[Magicpole]

Just as the SNP are currently fucking up Scotland ;-) I don't associate myself with any single political party, but I recognise that the majority of Leave voters (working class) are not meaningfully represented in Westminster. Leaving the EU allows new or existing political parties to legislate more flexibly to allow them to focus more on that demographic.

The UK goes above and beyond lots of EU legislation, particularly on worker's rights. We also had these rights before joining the EU. I don't expect these to change after Brexit, but if they do then I expect those suggesting them will be rejected by the electorate.

I believe European Development cash is best kept locally or nationally. I remember in the shock after the result, the BBC had a reporter somewhere in Wales that was a massive recipient of 'EU' cash but had voted heavily to leave. Behind the reporter was an EU commissioned statue. No wonder they voted out if all they saw of 'EU' cash was money invested in shitty sculptures rather than jobs/education/health/transport in the area. The EU is very very vain, which is at odds with every out voter I've spoken to.

If it was a big recipient of EU cash then I can assure you that it wasn't all spent on a statue.

If the people living there didn't take the time to ask what the eu did for them and thought it was only a statue then they won't be in line for any intelligence awards.

Thick as fuck.

At least take the time to ask, if they don't then whose faults that? The EU I suppose?

 

[inchy14]

Do you know any foreign people here? I worked in a school and met many parents who were scared of what it meant.

They also all said they felt safer here than their friends did in other parts of the U.K. This is backed up by research.

It's a big deal to me and gives us a gloss I don't think we are or deserve to be.

I repeat why would talented people who could help our economy choose to come here when they perceive brexit as anti them?

And yet i work here with 2 Slovakians, 2 Polish, 1 lithuanian and 1 Nigerian and all to a person would have voted out yet are more than happy to be here as are there friends who they see and speak to. They can all see why this country has decided to vote out of the EU as they're all in agreement that it's just a big bureaucrats wet dream.