Ederson Moraes

[mosssideblue]

no I'm obviously not suggesting that. just that i think hart is a better keeper.

But not for us, that was my point

 

[Dax777]

right, but everything else i think hart is better. harts only 30 ? its not exactly old for a keeper.

I'm.going to preface this by saying "it is true that stats don't show everything," But....

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, Now this:

This season Ederson has been better at almost everthing, but in the argument of who is better, I am not predisposed to thinking Joe Hart when Ederson dwarfs him in every statistical goalkeeping category.

More clean sheets,14 - 5
Fewer errors, 2 - 6
Fewer goals conceded, 10 - 48

And the most telling of all:
Saves per goal:
Ederson 4.5 saves per every goal
Joe Hart 1.6 saves per goal.

The last start is shocking as it suggests Ederson and Joe are not even in the same category as shot stopping Keepers.

And we've not even discussing the foot skills part here yet. Just the traditional goalkeeping stuff.

Like I said, stats don't show everything. But if you need 5.5 shots on goal to beat one guy, but only 2.5 to beat the other. I know which one I'm more inclined to suggest is better.

 

[domalino]

right, but everything else i think hart is better. harts only 30 ? its not exactly old for a keeper.

I'm sure that's an opinion formed off seeing dozens of games of Ederson, and not just a youtube video, half a CL game and a deep held bias for Joe Hart?

Personally, after seeing only 4 or 5 Benfica games, I think Ederson's reflex saves are at least equal to Hart, He's much quicker off his line as well. Hard to judge 1v1's because there were only a couple in the games I've seen but he won them all.

Add in the 7 year age difference and infinitely better passing, and I'd take Ederson every day of the week.

 

[gomer27]

I'm sure that's an opinion formed off seeing dozens of games of Ederson, and not just a youtube video, half a CL game and a deep held bias for Joe Hart?

Personally, after seeing only 4 or 5 Benfica games, I think Ederson's reflex saves are at least equal to Hart, He's much quicker off his line as well. Hard to judge 1v1's because there were only a couple in the games I've seen but he won them all.

Add in the 7 year age difference and infinitely better passing, and I'd take Ederson every day of the week.

i agree the age difference alone for me says you go for ederson 100% of the time, joe was a great keeper for us but ederson has the ability to be greater then hart was at any point in his career

 

[ojeme]

I think the way our defence has been this season, any keeper will have struggled, so for me, a better assessment should be available next season

All well and good but the point stands that we should never get carriedown away by ball playing skills of a GK or any player for that matter if they are not really good at their core job

 

[Dax777]

Again let me restate:

Statistically this year, Joe is not in the same class as Ederson when it comes to stopping shots.

So lets forget the footskills or age or Pep philosophy arguments for a 2nd. As shot stoppers with the duty of protecting their goalposts, Ederson is in Tier 1 rated goalie while Joe is a low end Tier3 or. High end Tier4 goalie.


At least, according to the incomplete stats that don't show everything.

 

[mosssideblue]

All well and good but the point stands that we should never get carriedown away by ball playing skills of a GK or any player for that matter if they are not really good at their core job

For us, a ball playing glad is part of the core job

 

[ojeme]

For us, a ball playing glad is part of the core job

Semantics. All I'm saying is we cannot afford to be too focused on one to the extent that we loose sight of the other.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

right, but everything else i think hart is better. harts only 30 ? its not exactly old for a keeper.

He isn't better at gambling apparently.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

no I'm obviously not suggesting that. just that i think hart is a better keeper.

If you are suggesting we bring back Hart you are suggesting we scrap Pep's philosophy.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

All well and good but the point stands that we should never get carriedown away by ball playing skills of a GK or any player for that matter if they are not really good at their core job

Their core job is playing with their feet. Wait till next year...you will see.

 

[lee_wsm]

would be happy if we sign Ederson looks like could fit our system very well

 

[ojeme]

Their core job is playing with their feet. Wait till next year...you will see.

Shot stopping is no less important than playing with the feet...I'm one of the few on here that have chosen not to give up on Bravo just yet but he has gotten so much stick from the fans enough to last for a lifetime, not because he'said been poor with the ball on his feet....

 

[Tugay One Cup]

I'm.going to preface this by saying "it is true that stats don't show everything," But....

Hahaha, you little shit!

Personally, I think Joe's world class attribute is his one on one ability and that's one aspect we've desperately missed this season. I've only watched a handful of Benfica matches this season but I don't think I've ever seen a keeper as quick off his line. He's like lightning and this will be crucial if we're to carry on playing such a high line.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Shot stopping is no less important than playing with the feet...I'm one of the few on here that have chosen not to give up on Bravo just yet but he has gotten so much stick from the fans enough to last for a lifetime, not because he'said been poor with the ball on his feet....

But you aren't the manager. Playing with your feet is more important to Pep.

Getting stick from people on Bluemoon means absolutely nothing. He isn't getting stick from Pep.

 

[pudge]

Their core job is playing with their feet. Wait till next year...you will see.

Sorry, but as much as we can all see and appreciate the style of play being implemented. It's still a 'keeper who's comfortable with the ball at feet not someone who's comfortable with the ball at their feet who happens to be a 'keeper.

There's probably some non-leaguer who could skin the pitch but let the ball go through his legs. The core skills of a 'keeper won't be compromised to accommodate for silky passing. It'll be finding the best balance of both, something we don't currently have.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

Sorry, but as much as we can all see and appreciate the style of play being implemented. It's still a 'keeper who's comfortable with the ball at feet not someone who's comfortable with the ball at their feet who happens to be a 'keeper.

There's probably some non-leaguer who could skin the pitch but let the ball go through his legs. The core skills of a 'keeper won't be compromised to accommodate for silky passing. It'll be finding the best balance of both, something we don't currently have.

Impossible to say that if you don't have the proper setup in front of the keeper.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Sorry, but as much as we can all see and appreciate the style of play being implemented. It's still a 'keeper who's comfortable with the ball at feet not someone who's comfortable with the ball at their feet who happens to be a 'keeper.

There's probably some non-leaguer who could skin the pitch but let the ball go through his legs. The core skills of a 'keeper won't be compromised to accommodate for silky passing. It'll be finding the best balance of both, something we don't currently have.

Completely agree here, Bravo might be playing the way his manager wants but neither of them will be happy with a lot of the goals we've conceded and blaming that entirely on the defence would be to ignore a glaring deficiency in this season's performances.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I'm sure that's an opinion formed off seeing dozens of games of Ederson, and not just a youtube video, half a CL game and a deep held bias for Joe Hart?

Personally, after seeing only 4 or 5 Benfica games, I think Ederson's reflex saves are at least equal to Hart, He's much quicker off his line as well. Hard to judge 1v1's because there were only a couple in the games I've seen but he won them all.

Add in the 7 year age difference and infinitely better passing, and I'd take Ederson every day of the week.

no i actually watch every single benfica game and analyze how well he played after each... I've seen hime play a few times when they've been on and seen youtube clips, of course i haven't watched dozens of benfica games, bias ? its not bias, its from seeing hart play every week, i think hes more then good enough and proved that throughout the years. thats just my opinion.

 

[pudge]

Impossible to say that if you don't have the proper setup in front of the keeper.

Whilst I agree that plays an obvious factor it's not an overly decisive one for us this season with regards to conceding.

We concede an anomalous amount of goals in relation to chances conceded. For me the common denominator is the last the last line of defence, sub-standard 'keeping.

Caballero has more clean sheets and made more saves in less PL games than Bravo but I'd wager possession statistics and possibly chances conceded as a whole are higher and lesser, respectively, with Bravo in goal. They're tasked with two objectives, in simple terms, and neither can seemingly deliver both at least not consistently and to the desired standard.

Almost as one they've shown what is needed but individually they arguably lack what the other has.