Ederson Moraes

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I'm.going to preface this by saying "it is true that stats don't show everything," But....

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, Now this:

This season Ederson has been better at almost everthing, but in the argument of who is better, I am not predisposed to thinking Joe Hart when Ederson dwarfs him in every statistical goalkeeping category.

More clean sheets,14 - 5
Fewer errors, 2 - 6
Fewer goals conceded, 10 - 48

And the most telling of all:
Saves per goal:
Ederson 4.5 saves per every goal
Joe Hart 1.6 saves per goal.

The last start is shocking as it suggests Ederson and Joe are not even in the same category as shot stopping Keepers.

And we've not even discussing the foot skills part here yet. Just the traditional goalkeeping stuff.

Like I said, stats don't show everything. But if you need 5.5 shots on goal to beat one guy, but only 2.5 to beat the other. I know which one I'm more inclined to suggest is better.

one plays for benfica the other plays for torino of course ederson is going to have more clean sheets and fewer goals conceded. torino from what I've seen dont have a very good defence either. hart for us was fantastic.

 

[domalino]

no i actually watch every single benfica game and analyze how well he played after each... I've seen hime play a few times when they've been on and seen youtube clips, of course i haven't watched dozens of benfica games, bias ? its not bias, its from seeing hart play every week, i think hes more then good enough and proved that throughout the years. thats just my opinion.

If you think he's good enough then you can't have been watching the same Joe Hart I was watching launch the ball into the stands 5 times a game.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

If you think he's good enough then you can't have been watching the same Joe Hart I was watching launch the ball into the stands 5 times a game.

the same joe hart was an integral part of us winning the league and made some amazing saves when he played, he proved he was good enough. hart isn't going to play for us next year, me personally though id bring him back and try him out in peps system. bravo this amazing ball playing keeper looks pretty average with his feet tbf

 

[oldius]

Us loving and respecting Joe does not mean that he is right for us now. It feels to me like we have moved on and I wish Joe all the best.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

the same joe hart was an integral part of us winning the league and made some amazing saves when he played, he proved he was good enough.

There are other member of those title winning teams who were just as integral and nearly all of them have either been sold or are now seen as dead wood. Times change and the needs of the squad change likewise.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

There are other member of those title winning teams who were just as integral and nearly all of them have either been sold or are now seen as dead wood. Times change and the needs of the squad change likewise.

obviously times change and you can't just stick with the same team, but if some of those players are good enough then why not ? silva, aguero, company are all still integral to our side, with them all fit and on form wed be close to wining the league. I'm not saying hart would have that impact or that he will be here next season. but if he was in net this year, wed be a miles better team and we would have conceded far less. i know its peps style, but I'm just not convinced that it works in the prem or that it can't be adapted. i.e. we can kick it down field swell. ederson looks a good keeper and hes at least better then bravo.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

the same joe hart was an integral part of us winning the league and made some amazing saves when he played, he proved he was good enough. hart isn't going to play for us next year, me personally though id bring him back and try him out in peps system. bravo this amazing ball playing keeper looks pretty average with his feet tbf

you're an idiotic WUM. Kindly bugger off.

Bravo "average with his feet", bollocks to you, bud.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

you're an idiotic WUM. Kindly bugger off.

Bravo "average with his feet", bollocks to you, bud.

fuck off. how am i a WUM ? i just have a different opinion to you. he has been average with his feet, other then the odd good ball out, he hasn't shown anything to me this season that says hes really good with his feet. he often passes it to players under pressure and with no where to go afterwards. he doesnt look comfortable with feet, especially under pressure imo. hes also been awful for us.

 

[Dax777]

Hahaha, you little shit!

Personally, I think Joe's world class attribute is his one on one ability and that's one aspect we've desperately missed this season. I've only watched a handful of Benfica matches this season but I don't think I've ever seen a keeper as quick off his line. He's like lightning and this will be crucial if we're to carry on playing such a high line.

He looks like he has the potential to be special. But if he does 2/3 of what he does for Benfica statistically for us next season, he'd have a season as good as Joe's best here.

In a way, I think his current stats is simply a purple patch. He wouldn't need to be this good to eclipse the best we've seen here. So its a bit strange that folks are underrating him.

I did a statistical comparison to DeGea, Neuer, Buffon and Oblak. 4 top keepers in the top 4 leagues and he frankly was outperforming on them all statistically.

one plays for benfica the other plays for torino of course ederson is going to have more clean sheets and fewer goals conceded. torino from what I've seen dont have a very good defence either. hart for us was fantastic.

"WAS" and " for us" being the operative words there. But what you claimed was that Joe was better than Ederson at everything else. Suggesting you were actually comparing their performances.

It seems you are not doing that. You are just hoping Joe is better coz you once for he was great when he played for us and you haven't seen much of that Ederson fella.

Fair enough. I'm just saying based on stats, it is unlikely Joe is better at anything.

Also, in doing your Benfica vs Toronto whitewashing, you ignore the most important stats:

1 that this kid at 23 was making significantly fewer individual errors than a 30 year old Joe. And even more importantly that he averages 4.5 saves for every goal. Joe is averaging 1.6 saves.

Those 2 stats are a lot more about the players than they are about other factors. But like I said, your were just hoping Joe was better at everything else, so its cool.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

fuck off. how am i WUM ? he has been average with his feet, other then the old good ball out. he often passes it to players under pressure and with no where to go afterwards. he doesnt look comfortable with feet esp[ecially under pressure

4,000 word response for you.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

He looks like he has the potential to be special. But if he does 2/3 of what he does for Benfica statistically for us next season, he'd have a season as good as Joe's best here.

In a way, I think his current stats is simply a purple patch. He wouldn't need to be this good to eclipse the best we've seen here. So its a bit strange that folks are underrating him.

I did a statistical comparison toDr Gea, Beyer, Buffon and Oblak. 4 top keepers in the top 4 leagues and he frankly what on them all statistically. Often there was a greater gab btw him at 1st to 2nd than there was btw 2nd and 5th.
He was first or 2nd in almost every category.

Sure he plays in the Portuguese league

"WAS" and " for us" being the operative words there. But what you claimed was that Joe was better than Ederson at everything else. Suggesting you were actually comparing their performances.

It seems you are not doing that. You are just hoping Joe is better coz you once for he was great when he played for us and you haven't seen much of that Ederson fella.

Fair enough. I'm just saying based on stats, it is unlikely Joe is better at anything.

Also, in doing your Benfica vs Toronto whitewashing, you ignore the most important stats:

1 that this kid at 23 was making significantly fewer individual errors than a 30 year old Joe. And even more importantly that he averages 4.5 saves for every goal. Joe is averaging 1.6 saves.

Those 2 stats are a lot more about the players than they are about other factors. But like I said, your were just hoping Joe was better at everything else, so its cool.

im comparing his performance for us. in our team. I'm not going to compare him now when hes in a poor torino team who dont have a very good defence. if ederson was in torinos teams i think he would have similar stats. I'm not hoping hes better. i just think hes better based on what i saw when he played for us, i dont see the problem in doing that tbh. benfica dominate games and barely concede any goals, i think it is hard to compare tbh, especially considering the teams they now play for.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

4,000 word response for you.

good response mate, did it take you a while to get those pictures ?. its just my opinion from watching him play for us.

 

[IWasHere]

the same joe hart was an integral part of us winning the league and made some amazing saves when he played, he proved he was good enough. hart isn't going to play for us next year, me personally though id bring him back and try him out in peps system. bravo this amazing ball playing keeper looks pretty average with his feet tbf

He's definitely not average with his feet...

 

[BigOscar]

I'm sure that's an opinion formed off seeing dozens of games of Ederson, and not just a youtube video, half a CL game and a deep held bias for Joe Hart?

Personally, after seeing only 4 or 5 Benfica games, I think Ederson's reflex saves are at least equal to Hart, He's much quicker off his line as well. Hard to judge 1v1's because there were only a couple in the games I've seen but he won them all.

Add in the 7 year age difference and infinitely better passing, and I'd take Ederson every day of the week.

Based on pretty much every post CHB's has ever posted, I'd imagine he's basing this on Joe being English and Ederson being foreign.

 

[Dax777]

im comparing his performance for us. in our team. I'm not going to compare him now when hes in a poor torino team who dont have a very good defence. if ederson was in torinos teams i think he would have similar stats. I'm not hoping hes better. i just think hes better based on what i saw when he played for us, i dont see the problem in doing that tbh. benfica dominate games and barely concede any goals, i think it is hard to compare tbh, especially considering the teams they now play for.

Again you are trying really hard to blur the issue. Ignore clean sheets for a second.

Lets focus on that "Shot stopping" statistic:
Over the last five years, Here are Joe Hart's # of saves befforeca a goal average.

2016/17: Torino 1.60 saves per goal
2015/16: ManCity 1.91 saves per goal
2014/15: Man City 2.37 saves per goal
2013/14: Man City. 1.59 Saves per goal
2012/13 Man City. 1.40 saves per goal
Compare the above to

2016/17: Benfica 4.5 saves per goal.

Simply put, there is no year in the last 5 years in which Joe's Shot stopping ability came anywhere close to what we are seeing from Ederson this season.

So you CANNOT frankly be comparing them at all. For one, it seems you haven't seen much of Ederson so you can't really compare, and you are basing your judgement of Joe being better on good memories of Joe against an assumption of a player you haven't seen much of. But when you compare his performances this season statistically to any year Joe has had since he was 25. They all pale in comparison to what this kid is doing this year.

He is having a type of season Joe has never had. Not for us or for anyone else. Statistically Statistically that is.

Make of that what you may :)

 

[Dax777]

Based on pretty much every post CHB's has ever posted, I'd imagine he's basing this on Joe being English and Ederson being foreign.

Lol

 

[mosssideblue]

the same joe hart was an integral part of us winning the league and made some amazing saves when he played, he proved he was good enough. hart isn't going to play for us next year, me personally though id bring him back and try him out in peps system. bravo this amazing ball playing keeper looks pretty average with his feet tbf

You claiming he is simply average with his feet is just telling us you dont really undderstand.

 

[mosssideblue]

Whilst I agree that plays an obvious factor it's not an overly decisive one for us this season with regards to conceding.

We concede an anomalous amount of goals in relation to chances conceded. For me the common denominator is the last the last line of defence, sub-standard 'keeping.

Caballero has more clean sheets and made more saves in less PL games than Bravo but I'd wager possession statistics and possibly chances conceded as a whole are higher and lesser, respectively, with Bravo in goal. They're tasked with two objectives, in simple terms, and neither can seemingly deliver both at least not consistently and to the desired standard.

Almost as one they've shown what is needed but individually they arguably lack what the other has.

on performances thus far, I would agree. That said, Willy is learning this new style and hence lacks the experience whilst Bravo is accomplished in both facets and is simply lacking confidence.

 

[ojeme]

But you aren't the manager. Playing with your feet is more important to Pep.

Getting stick from people on Bluemoon means absolutely nothing. He isn't getting stick from Pep.

He doesn't need to get stick from Pep (but even if he does get stick from Pep both of us may never know). Yes Pep dropped him to the bench after a series of poor performances. If his shot stopping skills were spot on, Pep would not have done that. Shot stopping clearly is just as important to Pep

 

[MadchesterCity]

This lad looks immense and would greatly improve us