General Election June 8th

Who will you vote for at the General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 189 28.8%
  • Labour

    Votes: 366 55.8%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 37 5.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 8 1.2%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 23 3.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 33 5.0%

  • Total voters
    656
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I find May incredibly disingenuous, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a quiet element of voters who are actually becoming pro-alternative Tory with the way this is being conducted and that this big Tory majority may not be quite as big as it seems.
 
Just thought the leaked Labour manifesto was worth a mention.
To pinch a quote from the Don 'it's beautiful'.
A credible and fully costed center left alternative set of policies to fund our skint public services and take back into state control the country's assets which have been used by private companies to line the pockets of directors and shareholders at the expense of the public.
Unlike the previous Tory lite policies of Red Ed this manifesto is a serious alternative to the neo liberal policy pursued since Thatcher of privatization and the 'trickle down' financing of public services from the benefits of a low tax economy (NOT).
Well you must be thrilled.

Although you were quite the cheerleader of Red Ed.

How are the polls looking out of interest?
 
Just thought the leaked Labour manifesto was worth a mention.
To pinch a quote from the Don 'it's beautiful'.
A credible and fully costed center left alternative set of policies to fund our skint public services and take back into state control the country's assets which have been used by private companies to line the pockets of directors and shareholders at the expense of the public.
Unlike the previous Tory lite policies of Red Ed this manifesto is a serious alternative to the neo liberal policy pursued since Thatcher of privatization and the 'trickle down' financing of public services from the benefits of a low tax economy (NOT).

I posted my thoughts on it earlier today, it doesn't appear fully costed from what I've seen, and I'm very wary of mandatory nationalisation and another rise in trade unions, but there was certainly some stuff that was good, and some stuff where I even felt they didn't go far enough.

My problem as I said earlier, is I really have little faith in the current shadow cabinet to fulfil any of it other than hand the reins to the unions to hold the country to ransom again, and I disagree with them on a few major things.
 
I'll tell you what. Before this election, I had hopes of May being a genuine one-nation Tory that would tone down some of Osborne's ideological excesses (because Cameron was just a pretty boy who never had an original thought in his life). But my opinion of her has gone down so low that not only do I see someone who is incapable of delivering change but someone who is a downright, evil liar. I hate the woman with a passion I can barely believe. Gordon Brown was someone I had no time for but he looks positively Churchillian next to May.

I'm still not convinced that Corbyn is a great leader but now we're getting to hear him more he's coming over as a very effective speaker and someone who has a passion for social justice. May, on the other hand, is like an ugly Barbie doll where you pull the string and it utters one of a few stock phrases. People are seeing the way the NHS and other public services are going and that she has no concept of, or meaningful answers for dealing with, the problems that ordinary people face. I think she's fucking this campaign up massively and it could be a lot tighter than people think.

At the start, I couldn't see who I was going to vote for as none of the main parties seemed to be offering much but now I will certainly be voting Labour and doing it enthusiastically.

Its interesting reading your thoughts. I have voted labour in the past but cannot bring myself to do so again as i run a small business and labour have been found out as being anti small business in the past. Their or should i say Corbyns manifesto looks like a socialist christmas wish list and i am sure would financially cripple uk plc. Im not overly impressed with the Tories either as I couldnt stand cameron or osbourne. I voted for Brexit and Ukip last election as a protest but they did their job and i see absolutely no point in continuing their party. I cant stand Tim Farron because he caved in on tuition fees and is a weasel. May seems a cold person to me and certainly needs to address some of the social injustices in our society but i doubt she will. That said the only leader i would go for a pint with is is Corbyn as he seems like a genuine person. I just happen to dissagree that his policies would work. Therefore I am considering not bothering to vote for the first time in my life. Politicians are all the same at the end of the day.
 
Its interesting reading your thoughts. I have voted labour in the past but cannot bring myself to do so again as i run a small business and labour have been found out as being anti small business in the past. Their or should i say Corbyns manifesto looks like a socialist christmas wish list and i am sure would financially cripple uk plc. Im not overly impressed with the Tories either as I couldnt stand cameron or osbourne. I voted for Brexit and Ukip last election as a protest but they did their job and i see absolutely no point in continuing their party. I cant stand Tim Farron because he caved in on tuition fees and is a weasel. May seems a cold person to me and certainly needs to address some of the social injustices in our society but i doubt she will. That said the only leader i would go for a pint with is is Corbyn as he seems like a genuine person. I just happen to dissagree that his policies would work. Therefore I am considering not bothering to vote for the first time in my life. Politicians are all the same at the end of the day.
Exactly how I feel
 
Well you must be thrilled.

Although you were quite the cheerleader of Red Ed.

How are the polls looking out of interest?
LOL.
Funnily enough Ed's policies of austerity lite and capping energy prices seem to have been adopted by the Tories. Also just think we could all have been relaxing now had he won - no Brexit to worry about, you would have been happy with that wouldn't you mate?
On the polls , yeah I took a hit on that (rightly)like everybody else. However if you read my comments at the time I always reckoned the likely outcome was a Tory minority government.
 
Just thought the leaked Labour manifesto was worth a mention.
To pinch a quote from the Don 'it's beautiful'.
A credible and fully costed center left alternative set of policies to fund our skint public services and take back into state control the country's assets which have been used by private companies to line the pockets of directors and shareholders at the expense of the public.
Unlike the previous Tory lite policies of Red Ed this manifesto is a serious alternative to the neo liberal policy pursued since Thatcher of privatization and the 'trickle down' financing of public services from the benefits of a low tax economy (NOT).

Fully costed based on the assumption that there are no negative consequences to increasing business taxes?
 
Fully costed based on the assumption that there are no negative consequences to increasing business taxes?
But we have several large businesses in the UK who pay next to nothing anyway ( boots the chemist is just one of many ) mainly because they have friends in high places - why should they get away with it and why were they allowed to get away with it in the first place?
 
Labour borrowing £250B in 10 years is described as 'huge' by The Telegraph, whereas no mention of Tories borrowing £700B in 7 years. Strange that.
And predicted to rise to borrowing an extra 800bn by 2020! When total debt will be at 1.8 tn!( of course they are reducing the deficit but slowly, very slowly Jeff)
If as usual they miss their targets, particularly if Brexit ( their responsibility) sticks the boot in then we're probably looking at their total borrowing of 1.1 tn since 2010 and a national debt of 2tn when the deficit is eliminated.
YCNMIU Jeff.
 
I'll tell you what. Before this election, I had hopes of May being a genuine one-nation Tory that would tone down some of Osborne's ideological excesses (because Cameron was just a pretty boy who never had an original thought in his life). But my opinion of her has gone down so low that not only do I see someone who is incapable of delivering change but someone who is a downright, evil liar. I hate the woman with a passion I can barely believe. Gordon Brown was someone I had no time for but he looks positively Churchillian next to May.

I'm still not convinced that Corbyn is a great leader but now we're getting to hear him more he's coming over as a very effective speaker and someone who has a passion for social justice. May, on the other hand, is like an ugly Barbie doll where you pull the string and it utters one of a few stock phrases. People are seeing the way the NHS and other public services are going and that she has no concept of, or meaningful answers for dealing with, the problems that ordinary people face. I think she's fucking this campaign up massively and it could be a lot tighter than people think.

At the start, I couldn't see who I was going to vote for as none of the main parties seemed to be offering much but now I will certainly be voting Labour and doing it enthusiastically.

One nation Tory? They talk the talk, but never walk the walk. I don't think we've had a Tory try that one on with even half hearted sincerity since Harold Macmillan. Think on this, why do Tories have to add one nation to their title? To convince us it is a tautology? When we all know it's an oxymoron, or at least we should.

When right wingers feel compelled to add such nonsense before their title, such as one nation Tory or compassionate conservative, what they're really trying to make us believe is that despite all evidence to the contrary they're not the nasty party.

Or am I they being cruel to be kind, firm but fair as Theresa herself says....

- Labour has become the new "nasty party", she urged the Conservatives to "step up and represent the whole nation".

"In tough times, everyone has to take their share of the pain."

She's committed to helping those “working around the clock” but still struggling to get by.

.............................

And yet research by the Resolution Foundation Headed by former Tory Minister Lord Willets, which takes into account the latest official forecasts on earnings and inflation, and the effects of 2015 budget announcements on tax, the living wage and benefits, finds that an already gloomy outlook for these families has got markedly worse since Brexit.

It shows that a couple with two children both under the age of four, who are both working (one full-time at £10.50 an hour and the other for 20 hours a week at the living wage) will be £2,000 worse off in 2020 than would have been the case without the double hit from the effects of Tory policies and the Brexit vote.

The foundation finds that a single parent with one child under the age of four, working full-time on the minimum wage, would in 2020 be £3,800 worse off as a result of measures announced in this parliament so far.

One important factor in these recalculations is that higher inflation and expectations of lower wage growth since the Brexit referendum have reduced the previous anticipated increases in the National Living Wage (NLW). Whereas Osborne said the NLW would reach £9.00 an hour by 2020, the foundation says it now expects it to be only £8.60 an hour. The level of the NLW is linked to rises in the pay of typical workers. Millions of families are also affected by pay freezes across the public sector that will last until 2020, which will feel more severe as inflation rises.

And things have got even worse since this research with the Bank of England today downgrading even further the prospects for wage growth and upgraded the threat of inflation.

You and I once argued about whether it was legitimate for me to openly express my hatred of the Tories, are you beginning to understand now?
 
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Labour borrowing £250B in 10 years is described as 'huge' by The Telegraph, whereas no mention of Tories borrowing £700B in 7 years. Strange that.

If it harks back t the 70's why aren't the Telegraph happy??? That was the era of Blue passports and imperial weights and measures - they should be backing Corbyn surely?
 
Its interesting reading your thoughts. I have voted labour in the past but cannot bring myself to do so again as i run a small business and labour have been found out as being anti small business in the past. Their or should i say Corbyns manifesto looks like a socialist christmas wish list and i am sure would financially cripple uk plc. Im not overly impressed with the Tories either as I couldnt stand cameron or osbourne. I voted for Brexit and Ukip last election as a protest but they did their job and i see absolutely no point in continuing their party. I cant stand Tim Farron because he caved in on tuition fees and is a weasel. May seems a cold person to me and certainly needs to address some of the social injustices in our society but i doubt she will. That said the only leader i would go for a pint with is is Corbyn as he seems like a genuine person. I just happen to dissagree that his policies would work. Therefore I am considering not bothering to vote for the first time in my life. Politicians are all the same at the end of the day.
That echoes how a lot of us feel I would guess.

Having a pint with Farron - I would not last 20mins before lamping him I am sure - May would bore the fuck out of me because - no matter her strengths as a PM - she would have no common ground for a chat over a pint with me I am sure.

Whereas, I am sure that I could spend a good few hours with Corbyn

Thing is though - all these 'promises' in manifestos are entirely dependent on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations - which despite what people still rail against are about to start.

They are meaningless if we have a shit outcome - and you have to ask yourself a simple question - do you agree that we are leaving? If the answer is yes that you have to consider voting accordingly, because:

If the Libdems get elected - the reality is a resounding NO - we will not leave

After Today, if Labour get in then it is a likely that the reality is NO - unless we accept the worst possible deal in which case all these promises about more money for the NHS , renationalisation etc. - which of course a lot of us would support - are utter bollocks

So if you accept that we are leaving, and you have gotten over fighting the 23/06 battle - it seems to me that you should Vote for May to get the job done - no matter your political persuasion.

This would be a different form of 'tactical voting' - but it would be the electorate getting behind the best outcome for the UK

It only works if you are a) able to get over the 23/06 outcome and b) are able to set aside your personal persuasions for the good of the UK

Afterwards, everyone can go back to their normal voting preferences.
 
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You and I once argued about whether it was legitimate for me to openly express my hatred of the Tories, are you beginning to understand now?
I don't have any deep political affiliation and didn't have the instinctive hatred for them that you had. I class myself as a fairly analytical person and judge them on their record and their policies rather than subjectively or emotionally.

But my judgement is that they are utterly appalling in terms of their ideas and execution. For a while my view on economics has been that some level of state intervention is absolutely necessary to provide the platform for the market to function effectively and for social stability. Osborne's ludicrous actions in increasing austerity for the first few years of his Chancellorship went against all established macroeconomic sense and we're still paying the price today. We're borrowing more and more but where is that money going? Not into essential services or infrastructure, that's for sure. Continual fiddling with health and education, putting ideology before the delivery of services that benefit the consumers of those services. I really don't think they have a clue what they're doing.
 
At midnight on 28th March 2019 you will hear a cock crowing because you will have been betrayed three times by the reMAYner.
First on EU immigration
Second on accepting ECJ rules
Third on UK annual payments to the EU.
And you will weep.
I will?
 
If posters are so convinced that May will deliver a bad Brexit for leavers why are they complaining? They should be smugly aware of their own predictions.
Unless?
 
But if that is true surely capitalism is an extension of fascism . some of the biggest fascists in history have taken over the running of their countries and enforced their own version of capitalism on all ?
How on earth do you equate capitalism, a system where the individual owns the means of trade and industry, therefore focusing on personal freedoms, and fascism, where the state government has total control over everything? One seeks to help people out of poverty to create personal wealth, the other seeks to take it all away from you. If anything mentioning fascism just highlights the number of similarities it has with communism.
 
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