Islamic Terrorism: is religion/belief no matter how misguided, the main motivator?

If they had the chance to go global and the power to do it, they would be all over it.

They are contained because they don't have the power. If any state run by fundsmentalists had the military means they would use it.

You can take that to the bank.

I don't know how you can be so certain.

It still doesn't explain why an established Islamic state has not been involved in any western terrorist incident in the way ISIS/ISIL have if it is central tenet of their beliefs. Do they just not believe it enough or is not really part of mainstream Islam at all?
 
This is on the right lines. If you read a book called "The Looming tower: Al Qaeda's Road to 9/11" it tells the history of the development of Islamic fundamentalism & paints a picture of radical Muslim political thinkers who objected to their countries (mainly Egypt at the time) going down the route of Westernisation. They espoused that Muslim majority countries should be run on a religious basis, not as what we consider to be social democracies. Throw the doctrine of Salafism (which is a Sunni ideology) into the mix and their aim is to see countries run on a much more conservative (i.e. strictly interpreted) basis than it would be under Shia or other forms of Islam.

So Iran, which you mention, is sort of a theocracy but it's Shia-dominated rather than Sunni. So the concept of Jihad as it exists among some Salafists isn't a factor in their belief system. They do however project political power to support other Shia's against Sunni oppression. Even among Salafi adherents, the majority don't get involved in politics, some do but don't resort to violence but a minority become jihadists. So you can't even blame Salafi's as a homogeneous group.

Compare that to Christianity, where the majority follow their faith peacefully, some (particularly in the USA) use it to justify their political beliefs and some, like the Westboro Baptist Church, are religious extremists. They're not violent ones but there are people who attack abortion clinics and have even murdered people who work at these clinics in the name of religion. Can we blame Christianity & Christians as a whole for those people? Should all Jews take the blame for the actions of Israel in Gaza or those individuals who kill Arabs? No we can't although that we have to recognise that religion gives them a platform or excuse for the way they formulate their twisted beliefs.

Let's also remember that Islam is only about 1400-1500 years old. Think back to Christianity in the Middle Ages when there were schisms, persecutions of Catholics & Jews, burning of witches and not forgetting the Crusades just a few hundred years earlier. Islam has evolved in an environment unused to democracy and where many of its adherents live in a world that doesn't accept or understand many of its beliefs. Judaism has followed the same path and while many of the most religious literally believe in the Torah and all its associated works, it's sort of come to terms with the modern world. Many of the most religious have as little contact as possible with the outside world, they don't have TV's, radios, the internet or newspapers. Their kids aren't taught in English, mainly study religious texts, do little maths and certainly nothing scientific that might conflict with the word of God, don't learn about other religions or sex education. Religiously they're just as extreme as the Salafis but they don't have a political ideology that drives them to jihad. They believe in the coming of the Messiah and that religious devotion, rather than violence, will hasten that.

Interesting post, thanks, I bow to your knowledge of the different strands of Islam.

Have you read Age of Anger by Pankaj Mishra? If not I recommend it if you are interested in why the world seems so pissed off all the time.
 
There should be no religious education taught at any school. None. If people want to practice faith they can do so in their own time and expense

That goes for catholic schools, Jewish schools, c of e school and Muslim schools.

It just creates divisions from an early age and teaching of one faith.

How can we create a multicultural society when we stick them in silos from age of 4.

Also I am still not sure how any religion reconciles the existence of dinasour fossils and bones with their religious texts, but hey I am sure there is a convenient excuse.
 
I don't know how you can be so certain.

It still doesn't explain why an established Islamic state has not been involved in any western terrorist incident in the way ISIS/ISIL have if it is central tenet of their beliefs. Do they just not believe it enough or is not really part of mainstream Islam at all?

Iran has funded terrorism since 1979.
 
I hope there isn't a God as I'll be fucked when I get to the Pearly Gates.
 
Iran has funded terrorism since 1979.

As has the UK, USA, Russia etc.

Do you have the names of specific terrorist groups they have funded in that time?

Also have any of these groups carried out attributable terrorist acts on what we might describe as western soil (US, Europe) in the way we are seeing them now?
 
I am not saying Iran is some perfect model of how societies should be run, however to answer your points specifically: on elections one word - Trump, on the fatwah, post-Khomeini Iran is a very different place to the one of 30 years ago. I don't know about the dance thing but female education, employment and life expectancy have all improved markedly in the last 20-30 years. Yes they have a different attitude to women but that does not make them second class citizens.

The point I was really making is that Iran is an Islamic state and has been since 1979. The revolution, like all such upheavals, was brutal, as I said I am not trying to make them out to be perfect. They have been heavily involved in supporting Islamic causes in the region but they have not invoked or provoked anything like ISIS or ISIL, indeed they have been involved in fighting them in Iraq and Syria.

There are parts of the Middle East that are a mess but that is not because the Islamic religion want to take over the world as was posited in the OP.
Well, on Trump, that's 'whatabout-ism'. We're not talking about the U.S., but Iran, and they interfered in their election in a big way (and then suppressed the green protest movement). Whatever Trump did doesn't take away from what happened in Iran.

Yes, post-Kohemeini Iran is very different today to how it was in the 60s and 70s. Had you said that 60s/70s Iran showed how progressive an Islamic nation could be, I'd have agreed wholeheartedly! It's almost heartbreaking seeing photos from that time and hearing stories from Iranians about how positive things were back then

Women's education there has improved (although, you could argue that the improvement is at a consistent rate with most other developing nations, rather than being anything special about Iran - but that's not an argument I'd make), but again that's a bit of a red herring because it still hasn't changed how, for example, female rape victims are treated, or how women with abusive husbands and seeking divorce are handled.

I agree with the sentiment of your point but I don't think that Iran is the best example to use - it is almost the very definition of a theocratic state. I think a better example might be Jordan (like you say with Iran, not perfect but in the context pretty good), or maybe even Turkey pre-Erdogan.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.