Islamic Terrorism: is religion/belief no matter how misguided, the main motivator?

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Mosul is the last major city under ISIS control. The rest of the land is essentially barren desert with no buildings or roads, with some interspersed town between it.

This didn't get widely reported because of the Manchester attack, but yesterday ISIS leadership fled Mosul entirely and set themselves up in Al Qa'im. This is now considered the head of the global ISIS operation.

It has a population roughly the size of Inverness. In GDP terms, it's somewhere around the Isle of Skye.

Mosul has roughly the population of Greater Manchester to give you an idea of the scale of the fallback.

IS in Syria and Iraq is the least of our worries 2bh. It's those that are here, across Europe or who have been going back and forth between there and here or other places with areas of strong support for the cause like Libya etc that are the main problem. It's grown its roots and you can chop it off at the surface but we're at the mercy of it striking back elsewhere, just because it's become ingrained. They're embedded in the internet, they're in young peoples homes, they're preaching within cleverly guarded limits in mosques and there is a clear detachment from the rest of society which has helped caused Monday, and may never be resolved because there's nothing close to consensus.

I still hold my belief from Iraq that these places were better under dictatorship, democratically elected government is virtually impossible as they won't park their religion at the door. I know it's against your world view, but I prefer the international stability we had to what we've created in the name of the "Arab Spring". "You don't know what you've got till it's gone" springs to mind.

 

[Millennium]

One thing you need to be sure about before we continue this discussion: I do not give any excuses or justification for those killers. I hope they all go to hell and be punished. I am a Muslim and father and have allot of non muslims friends.
And yes some of rockets lands on civilians and caused death of innocent people. This is fact unles you think rockets are bullet that will only kill the targeted person!!!!

Just tell me how many innocent Iraqi died because of American invasion to Iraq based on lies and falsifications evidence?

And again I am not trying to give any excuses for crimes against humanity , I am just trying to give you one of many possible reasons of why this reaction is happening.

I went to United States many times and I loved the place and the people in general are supportive and helpful. And I love people in general and believe they are good and kinds.

One of the biggest problems we are facing today is lack of honesty. We need to be honest to fight together all wrong doings and crimes against humanity.

I found this news today

"The results of a US military investigation have found that many of the more than 100 Iraqi civilians killed in west Mosul in a US airstrike in March died because the building in which they were held had explosives inside that detonated after a US bomb hit the building"

Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/25/politics/mosul-civilian-casualties/index.html

So, do you believe now that this rockets does not only kill terrorists? more than 100 Iraqi civilians died, no one cares about them, and they are not the only victims. i hate war. allot of people die for stupid reasons and some time for no reasons.

 

[guvnors son mcfc]

I come into contact with many Muslims mainly through business etc but I always engage them in discussion be it during a taxi ride or wherever.

What frightens me is to a man they all absolutely believe in their God in their faith and in their holy book. Every single word of it.

I've tried reading the bible and the Quran and with a free open mind both books are complete bollocks.

Anybody with a single ounce of a free and open mind can see that it's all total mumbo jumbo bollocks written in medieval times for people without a brain of their own.

Muslims really believe that their time on earth is a test and that they will be judged in accordance to their holy book and will go on to another world .

It amazes me that people are so stupid. It frightens me that we have a growing population amongst us who follow and practice a religion and worship a prophet who under today's laws would be spending life in prison for his crimes.

This country has had it !

The Muslim areas throughout the UK are growing and I'm afraid unlike West Indians , Indians , Irish , Italians , etc etc they do not intergrate as freely.

I'm not sure my son would be welcome to marry a Muslim girl without first converting to Islam.

It's all heading in a bad way I'm afraid

We have 4000 known potential terrorist under constant surveillance. In Belgium they have 40,000 !!

The rate in which the Muslim population is growing in the UK we will have a similar number of potential terrorist living amongst us in less than 20 years !!

Just imagine that for one second !!

 

[cucumberman]

That was a very paranoid, over the top post yes but the matter of indigenous population % vs. immigrant ethnicities % is a legitimate concern that should be controlled for all manner of reasons, none of them a race issue. It sort of becomes a political issue when you ask the question - "do you want to be like the USA?" You'll have globalists who want no borders with one answer and people who understand the need for borders to manage regional economy, balance populations and retain as many cultures as possible (for the benefit of all) with another. Also the consideration of what all our past wars were fought for.

To back up my point, I found Erdogan's comments a while ago very concerning coming from a leading political figure where he effectively called on Turks to take over the future of Europe: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-families-have-five-children-bulwark-against/

With the dramatic decline in the number of wars in the modern day and the inevitable population booms because of that and health advances, over-population is a significant concern and when it comes down to the crunch it will become a race issue whether people are willing to admit that or not - it's instinctive for people to look after their own (whatever they categorise that as, which at a basic level is nationality).

On the flip-side, it's worth reinforcing the point that any country welcoming different ethnicities and cultures produces beautiful benefits the kind of which wouldn't otherwise. This has led to all manner of music styles coming about. Just like many things, a balance has to be addressed - ying and yang.

I have no understanding whatsoever as to cultures who migrate to a host country and then impose their culture on that country and seek parity if not privilege. I am an expatriate of this country myself in that I am only here for professional purposes and once this expires I either seek pastures new or return to my own country, the latter being the more likely case. As well, in my country I work with expatriates who come from this region, Mancunians who are travellers of the world soaking cultures while exercising their careers. From more than 10 years I've considered Manchester my second home but I will not settle here for good.

I believe in when in Rome, do as Romans do. A culture should not impose themselves in a foreign country and try to change that country's governance unless that host country and its people says it's ok.

 

[Machiavelli]

I come into contact with many Muslims mainly through business etc but I always engage them in discussion be it during a taxi ride or wherever.

What frightens me is to a man they all absolutely believe in their God in their faith and in their holy book. Every single word of it.

I've tried reading the bible and the Quran and with a free open mind both books are complete bollocks.

Anybody with a single ounce of a free and open mind can see that it's all total mumbo jumbo bollocks written in medieval times for people without a brain of their own.

Muslims really believe that their time on earth is a test and that they will be judged in accordance to their holy book and will go on to another world .

It amazes me that people are so stupid. It frightens me that we have a growing population amongst us who follow and practice a religion and worship a prophet who under today's laws would be spending life in prison for his crimes.

This country has had it !

The Muslim areas throughout the UK are growing and I'm afraid unlike West Indians , Indians , Irish , Italians , etc etc they do not intergrate as freely.

I'm not sure my son would be welcome to marry a Muslim girl without first converting to Islam.

It's all heading in a bad way I'm afraid

We have 4000 known potential terrorist under constant surveillance. In Belgium they have 40,000 !!

The rate in which the Muslim population is growing in the UK we will have a similar number of potential terrorist living amongst us in less than 20 years !!

Just imagine that for one second !!

Women don't have to convert to marry a muslim, where ever your information is coming from is bollocks.
You could turn this bollocks around and ask yourself how would YOU feel if your daughter or sister came home with a muslim man and planned to marry?
Funny you should mention West Indians and the Irish, both communities that have thankfully overcome the similar lazy racist shite they put up with from doom mongers who didn't want them in their country at the time.

 

[johnmc]

Women don't have to convert to marry a muslim, where ever your information is coming from is bollocks.
You could turn this bollocks around and ask yourself how would YOU feel if your daughter or sister came home with a muslim man and planned to marry?
Funny you should mention West Indians and the Irish, both communities that have thankfully overcome the similar lazy racist shite they put up with from doom mongers who didn't want them in their country at the time.

Not sure he said they would have to, just he is not sure they whether they would be allowed without converting and he is right.

No one is saying that muslims don't marry outside of their faith. I know of only one however. He is a Muslim. He is happy with his Christian wife. His family however no longer speak to him. Maybe a one off. Maybe not. However if she converted the family would still be speaking to him.

 

[Shirley]

Women don't have to convert to marry a muslim, where ever your information is coming from is bollocks.
You could turn this bollocks around and ask yourself how would YOU feel if your daughter or sister came home with a muslim man and planned to marry?
Funny you should mention West Indians and the Irish, both communities that have thankfully overcome the similar lazy racist shite they put up with from doom mongers who didn't want them in their country at the time.

I think he means his son would have to convert to marry a Muslim woman which I understand he must.

 

[Machiavelli]

Not sure he said they would have to, just he is not sure they whether they would be allowed without converting and he is right.

No one is saying that muslims don't marry outside of their faith. I know of only one however. He is a Muslim. He is happy with his Christian wife. His family however no longer speak to him. Maybe a one off. Maybe not. However if she converted the family would still be speaking to him.

So you don't have to convert then, so what I posted was 100% accurate-you even provided us with a real life example where your muslim mate married a Christian who didn't renounce her faith and convert to islam, the family bit wasn't relevant to what we're discussing, I have many friends, both male and female of all colours and creeds who have fallen out with their families over various things, probably including their choice of partners. I'm not sure falling out with family over lovers is exclusive to muslim families! I have a few gay friends who have been disowned by their white families for being gay, are we using that as a reason to call all white folk homophobic?

 

[Shirley]

So you don't have to convert then, so what I posted was 100% accurate-you even provided us with a real life example where your muslim mate married a Christian who didn't renounce her faith and convert to islam, the family bit wasn't relevant to what we're discussing, I have many friends, both male and female of all colours and creeds who have fallen out with their families over various things, probably including their choice of partners. I'm not sure falling out with family over lovers is exclusive to muslim families! I have a few gay friends who have been disowned by their white families for being gay, are we using that as a reason to call all white folk homophobic?

What he is describing is a situation in the U.K., in Muslim countries it would not happen because it is illegal.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think he means his son would have to convert to marry a Muslim woman which I understand he must.

That may not be universally allowed in every instance but it is allowed in some countries, Turkey for example where it is covered by secular law.
That's the problem with lumping Islam/muslims into one great big homogeneous mass, they all practice their version of Islam with varying degrees. A lot of these 'rules' are interpreted and enforced differently depending on the country.