Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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Damocles said:
All you non Labour members are starting to see the nastiness of the Momentum lot now. This is the third of them who has told me to leave the Party for not supporting their political position.

They want ideological purity and it's why they'll never win an election. They hate the middle class. They hate all of you. Len, Ken fumble - they're the types who feel empowered by this losing result and wouldn't piss on the middle classes if they were on fire. You only have to read their posts on here for the last few years .

On the plus side my councillor has just asked me if I'd be interested in getting more involved in the local CLP. So the local Party want me more involved and the Momentum lot want to kick me out for trying to win elections. Funny that. Might join Progress too, they seem to want to try and win.
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I don't think anyone outside of labour has had anything good to say about momentum to be honest. It's always been clear what they are to me.
 
robbieh said:
I think the reality is just as the world moved to the right 35 years ago and took the centre with it there is a realignment going on.
And to be honest it is the only way capitalism survives in the long term.
Anything less and things would get ugly.
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That's great, I'd love a socialist Labour Government, I just doubt we'll ever see one. I also think that people are looking at Tory remain voters going Labour to stop hard Brexit and thinking they've won them over. I just don't believe that there's a burning socialist flame reignited in Kensington. I don't believe it for a minute.

I just want to win; not because it's a football team but because you can't help anyone in Opposition and can only try not to make things worse. I'm not a Blairite or a Corbynista or a Brownite or a Milifan (!). I'm a "let's be in Government and put forward a manifesto that the whole country can vote for"-er. Every socialist manifesto in the past has lost, every New Labour one won. To me it's as simple as that
 
Damocles said:
When I was door knocking, do you know what was a common thing I heard in this traditionally Labour working class areas? "I don't think any political party gives a shit about me and my family".
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I subscribe to this view. Political parties want power first and foremost and then the last thing they want to use it for is to further the interests of the inhabitants of the nation. They aren't gonna pursue the interests of those who they perceive as not voting for them, so we get a situation where a left or centre left administration try to pump resources into those areas where they think people have nowt, and right and centre right want to reward those who voted for them, and we are left with a substantial rump in the middle who, inevitably, end up paying when the wheels come off!
 
Damocles said:
I'm putting Labour voters down for celebrating when they should be angry. We lost and now there's potentially 5 more years of austerity. The people who needed us to win this time around have been let down. That's just the reality of losing.

As mentioned, I did a decent amount of campaigning in this election in not just my own but a few neighbouring places too.

When I was door knocking, do you know what was a common thing I heard in this traditionally Labour working class areas? "I don't think any political party gives a shit about me and my family". It broke me heart a bit that - that many people on the lower end of the scale didn't know that traditionally Labour try to help them. When I ask them why they think that, their common answer was that because all the politics types - not just the MPs but the members aswell, hate each other more than they care about us.

And they're right, most of them do. And this should change. And we should be constantly reminding ourselves that that's who we're supposed to be working for and that's who we have a duty to set out electable positions for.

Give you an example. I think it would be great if we turned the EU into one big country. That would be smashing to me. I also want a well funded education system and police force in run down areas. I can't get the second thing if I campaign to the electorate with the first thing in my manifesto. So even if it's something that Id like to happen, I don't put it in there because the people who really need good schools are relying on me to get into power and make it happen, so tossing myself off on my dream policies is arrogance. The electorate don't want the first one and will vote against any manifesto with it in it.

Do you see now? Do you see the problem with these extremists celebrating their massive loss As some sort of win?
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Who is celebrating? Where are these people celebrating victory?
You absolutely don't get it do you? The nasty ones in the labour party are not the Cornyn supporters but the wankers that tried to ignore the member votes and kick out the elected leader. A meaningful labour party will never gain power whilst the likes of you put it down from within and cause division, I and many others do not want another blair type govt Just so we can say..oh well, at least labour won...No point and THAT betrays the needy and vulnerable.
 
The BBC did a graphic saying 62% of Leave voted Tory and 50% of Remain voted Labour.

Surely if that were the case May would have got her landslide.
 
robbieh said:
The BBC did a graphic saying 62% of Leave voted Tory and 50% of Remain voted Labour.

Surely if that were the case May would have got her landslide.
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Depends how the votes relate to seats. The Tories gained in a lot of Labour seats but couldn't overturn the majorities.
 
blue cigar said:
Who is celebrating? Where are these people celebrating victory?
You absolutely don't get it do you? The nasty ones in the labour party are not the Cornyn supporters but the wankers that tried to ignore the member votes and kick out the elected leader. A meaningful labour party will never gain power whilst the likes of you put it down from within and cause division, I and many others do not want another blair type govt Just so we can say..oh well, at least labour won...No point and THAT betrays the needy and vulnerable.
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Yeah the far left aren't the nasty ones despite three of them telling me to leave the Party, Paul Mason talking about purges and constant accusations of anti-Semitism.

Who's really to blame are people who want to win and help people, rather than lose and feel smug.
 
blueinsa said:
Beat me to it mate.

Imagine the quandary up and down the country on a weekly basis as Fred or Mavis can't quite decide what to do with their minimum wage....buy food and pay the bills or invest in fucking shares?

Christ some on here are in cloud fucking cuckoo land they really are.
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See two above.
 
blueinsa said:
Why aren't Ireland and Hungary the bastions of capitalism then already and financial powerhouses?

You know why but insist on playing games.
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And you know full well that they started well behind the UK in terms of infrastructure and other attractions, such as availability of skilled resources.

However,

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High tax = brakes on = slow growth.

Slow growth = less well off, less money to spend on public services.

Stimulating growth and improving public services with more borrowing is OK provided the level of debt is not too high. We had the highest deficit of all major developed countries in 2010 and a debt mountain spiralling out of control. Borrowing more at that time would have been madness. Something had to be done. And raising taxes any more than even a modest amount would have crushed any hope of a recovery.

I understand this is an unfortunate truth for people totally pissed off with the state of our public services, but nevertheless it is the truth.

Corbyn's plans would provide a short term boost and then very quickly turn the economy into full speed reverse. By the end of his term, the economy would be in deep recession and debt spiralling once again. Count on it.
 
blueinsa said:
talk about the millions of families who barely manage yet you think they can just go and invest in shares when the truth is, most can barely pay the bills and put food on the table most weeks despite holding down jobs
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Again, he talked about pension funds. 86% of people have them in some sort or another. You're the one that has misrepresented what he said and changed it into mini-Gordon Gecko types.
 
jonmcity said:
Annuity's pay such a pittance, that we will be paying for the welfare of most in old age from tax revenues in any case.
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Annuities pay around 5% based on current rates and likely time span of payments (20 years).

But you're right, people need to put more aside for their own retirement than they do at present. Either that or not live as long. Annuity rates would be a lot higher if everyone started retiring at 65 and dying at 68 again.
 
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