Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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mcfc1632 said:
What a strange post - drinking?

Is it not the UK's Brexit?
If it goes tits - is it not the UK that will suffer
Is that glorious?

Anyway - I am in mourning and cannot be arsed with cheap anti-UK sniping
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He's celebrating his victory in the election.

I don't know why you're in mourning. Brexit is more likely to happen now it has over 80% behind it. Even Len supported it by voting for Comrade Corbyn and IRA Jonny was on the TV this morning talking about leaving the single market. Remember they need to leave the influence of the ECJ as well so they can nationalise the water and electricity companies; no way would that be allowed under EU jurisdiction.

I think she held the election to water down Brexit, to get rid of the influence of people like Davis, it was reported he was to be replaced by some wet remainer.

I see Boris came out in support of her today (likely he was sharpening his knife whilst typing lol) but if they want her to be the figurehead for brexit she will have to redeem herself; and that means she is more likely to walk away than appear to lose or be weak. She needs to repair her damaged reputation – and do it quickly. This is bad for the EU. The walk away option is still on the table maybe more so now.

BTW When I feel sad I take my shoes and socks off and tickle my own feet until I cheer up. ;-)
 
Ban-jani said:
Maybe they thought democracy should be confined to our sovereign nation? Maybe just a thought

You've got campaign slogans mixed up with the US presidential election too.
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smudgedj said:
He's celebrating his victory in the election.

I don't know why you're in mourning. Brexit is more likely to happen now it has over 80% behind it. Even Len supported it by voting for Comrade Corbyn and IRA Jonny was on the TV this morning talking about leaving the single market. Remember they need to leave the influence of the ECJ as well so they can nationalise the water and electricity companies; no way would that be allowed under EU jurisdiction.

I think she held the election to water down Brexit, to get rid of the influence of people like Davis, it was reported he was to be replaced by some wet remainer.

I see Boris came out in support of her today (likely he was sharpening his knife whilst typing lol) but if they want her to be the figurehead for brexit she will have to redeem herself; and that means she is more likely to walk away than appear to lose or be weak. She needs to repair her damaged reputation – and do it quickly. This is bad for the EU. The walk away option is still on the table maybe more so now.

BTW When I feel sad I take my shoes and socks off and tickle my own feet until I cheer up. ;-)
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Davis was part of her inner circle during the campaign, he is/was one of her closest political allies. The early election was supposedly his idea.

Labour might be talking of leaving the single market but isn't there a world of difference between leaving the single market but still having favourable access to it, and leaving the single market and defaulting to WTO terms? It's where we end up on the spectrum that matters.

Has anyone come up with a workable solution as to how it would be possible to have free trade and freedom of movement between Northern Ireland and both the ROI and GB under a hard Brexit?
 
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Can somebody tell me why leaving the Customs Union is a good idea as part of a hard Brexit?
I'd seriously love to know:
- Turkey is in it but not in the EU or EFTA.
- It removes the probability of Tarrifs between the EU and UK.
- It pretty much nearly solves the the NI open border issue all on its own.
- The only downside is agreeing to apply EU Tarrifs to other countries.

Most of Brexit issues gone in a stroke.
 
Barry Gardiner on "Today" pointing out that we are negotiating an unusual trade agreement - to make trade more difficult.

As for 80% in favour of leaving... that would not be the result of a second referendum.
 
Vic said:
Barry Gardiner on "Today" pointing out that we are negotiating an unusual trade agreement - to make trade more difficult.

As for 80% in favour of leaving... that would not be the result of a second referendum.
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80%! PMSL!!!!!

Another referendum would be an easy vote to stay. Any half-decent Remain campaign now would just point to the chaos caused and dire economic ramifications which are starting to bite and will continue to.

I retain some hope that this lunacy is still reversible. Common sense usually prevails, and the influence of the right wing media on the ill-informed is waning. As the election shows, they are firing analogue bullets in an increasingly digital war.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
80%! PMSL!!!!!

Another referendum would be an easy vote to stay. Any half-decent Remain campaign now would just point to the chaos caused and dire economic ramifications which are starting to bite and will continue to.

I retain some hope that this lunacy is still reversible. Common sense usually prevails, and the influence of the right wing media on the ill-informed is waning. As the election shows, they are firing analogue bullets in an increasingly digital war.
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I still hold the thought that many many leavers didn't vote to leave with any financial considerations in mind and if we had another vote (Which I don't want it smacks of the way the Irish were treated) then the people voting to leave will rise and there would be an even bigger majority. Labour are now on board and even the usually screamingly liberal left BBC are making noises about how to make the most of it and democracy is key.
Anyone wanting to remain in the EU should have voted LD in the GE because Farron and his crew are the only ones who would have no problem reversing the referendum, if this was a GE focused on Brexit then considering Labour and the Tories both told the electorate it means leaving the single market and they respect the referendum and people overwhelmingly voted for them it was a big go ahead for what some remainers call a 'Hard Brexit'.
 
dave_blue12 said:
Brexit will be a disaster and once the effects really start to bite people will turn against it.

DCGhTcHXcAAW8WK.jpg
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Yep. That's about the size of it. Brexit was a stupid idea, driven by people rebelling against problems that either did not exist or which were surmountable, and promises of solutions that were never achievable.
  • Immigration of both skilled and unskilled young people is needed as our population ages. We should have been figuring out how to increase the capacity of our services to accommodate them, not shut them out. (We still should be, btw)
  • We never needed to "take back control" since we already had it. Not a single aspect of our daily lives that really matters, is controlled by the EU. We already control our borders, our defence policy, our fiscal policies; taxing and spending, our NHS, our education policies. Take back control was a lie. We already have it.
  • Negotiating a tariff-free trade deal whilst not agreeing to EU principles of free movement etc, was never realistic
  • Neither is the idea that on our own we can negotiate better trade deals with e.g. China than the EU can. We have 60m people's buying power as leverage; the EU has 500m.
  • Ridiculous to imagine that severely damaging 44% of our trade business would not have terrible consequences for our economy.
  • Insane to think we can negotiate the 100's of new trade deals needed, in anything less than decades.
  • Therefore almost impossible for new trade deals to make up for the loss of EU trade, in less than decades.
A dismal decision, doomed to failure, foisted upon us by ideologues peddling lies and praying on peoples' fears over immigration.
 
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vonkeynotvenky said:
I still hold the thought that many many leavers didn't vote to leave with any financial considerations in mind and if we had another vote (Which I don't want it smacks of the way the Irish were treated) then the people voting to leave will rise and there would be an even bigger majority. Labour are now on board and even the usually screamingly liberal left BBC are making noises about how to make the most of it and democracy is key.
Anyone wanting to remain in the EU should have voted LD in the GE because Farron and his crew are the only ones who would have no problem reversing the referendum, if this was a GE focused on Brexit then considering Labour and the Tories both told the electorate it means leaving the single market and they respect the referendum and people overwhelmingly voted for them it was a big go ahead for what some remainers call a 'Hard Brexit'.
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If democracy is key, why have we just had an election when we didn't need one? Let's have another referendum.

And don't be silly about voting LibDem rather than Labour - May would have had her crazy hard Brexit endorsement. Now she's got no mandate, and fewer MPs (but still most of them think any Brexit is crazy).
 
Vic said:
If democracy is key, why have we just had an election when we didn't need one? Let's have another referendum.

And don't be silly about voting LibDem rather than Labour - May would have had her crazy hard Brexit endorsement. Now she's got no mandate, and fewer MPs (but still most of them think any Brexit is crazy).
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I didn't agree with having an election mate but having one I suppose is democratic. How many politicians complained about May not having a mandate? hence the election. We are not Ireland and don't need another referendum what we need is a Brexit that is the best for us after leaving the single market.
 
Manchester_lalala said:
Brexit has been nothing short of a shambles. Do we, don't we, do we, don't we? I voted to leave, but I've lost interest in it now. We will be still considering not to leave in 2020.
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I agree with that. I passionately argued that we should not have voted to leave. But having lost the debate, we should have got on with it and triggered A50 a year ago. We'd have been deep into negotiations by now, and the cost, disruption and downright shambles of this general election would have been completely avoided.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Some of of the 27 will be glad to see the back of us. I was chatting to some Belgiums who thought trade with the UK was nigh on irrelevant to their economy.
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Ha! Belgium sells more to us than any other EU country per head of population - an £8bn surplus in their favour. They would be hammered if tariffs arise.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I agree with that. I passionately argued that we should not have voted to leave. But having lost the debate, we should have got on with it and triggered A50 a year ago. We'd have been deep into negotiations by now, and the cost, disruption and downright shambles of this general election would have been completely avoided.
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Exactly, this country is a joke.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Ha! Belgium sells more to us than any other EU country per head of population - an £8bn surplus in their favour. They would be hammered if tariffs arise.
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But not as much as we sell to the EU. So we'd be hammered more. Sorry, we WILL be hammered more.
 
Chippy_boy said:
But not as much as we sell to the EU. So we'd be hammered more. Sorry, we WILL be hammered more.
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Negotiations haven't started yet in earnest mate. We survived millennia without the country being wrapped up in a political union that wants even more power over us. Give it time it'll sort itself and we will not be living in a post apocalyptic country eating cold gruel out of rusty tins.
 
vonkeynotvenky said:
Negotiations haven't started yet in earnest mate. We survived millennia without the country being wrapped up in a political union that wants even more power over us. Give it time it'll sort itself and we will not be living in a post apocalyptic country eating cold gruel out of rusty tins.
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Some people will actually be eating cold gruel out of rusty tins, because some people are doing that right now. And the numbers of such people will go up.

The rest of us will just be poorer, which is just fine if you like that sort of thing. I don't care for it myself.
 
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