Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[vonkeynotvenky]

Some people will actually be eating cold gruel out of rusty tins, because some people are doing that right now. And the numbers of such people will go up.

The rest of us will just be poorer, which is just fine if you like that sort of thing. I don't care for it myself.

That isn't true is it? And even if we were we are still in the EU so what have they done for us?

 

[BlueAnorak]

But not as much as we sell to the EU. So we'd be hammered more. Sorry, we WILL be hammered more.

Of course, but Belgium gets hammered more than any other EU country if things go wrong.

 

[Chippy_boy]

we are still in the EU so what have they done for us?

Plenty. They've allowed us to become richer by being able to see our goods and services freely and easily to 500m+ people. That comes with a cost, which is the rest of the stuff we've had to sign up to.

But without wanting to rake over too much old ground, my beef about Brexit is NOT about whether or not we should be in or out of the EU. It's the fact that like it or not, we ARE in it. And leaving it is going to be awful for all of us for the next 10 to 20 years. We are going to be worse off for decades, and possibly forever.

If we were not in the EU right now, possibly I could be persuaded we should not join. But we are in it, and whether or not we should leave, is a completely different question.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Plenty. They've allowed us to become richer by being able to see our goods and services freely and easily to 500m+ people. That comes with a cost, which is the rest of the stuff we've had to sign up to.

But without wanting to rake over too much old ground, my beef about Brexit is NOT about whether or not we should be in or out of the EU. It's the fact that like it or not, we ARE in it. And leaving it is going to be so shockingly awful for all of us for the next 10 to 20 years. We are going to be worse off for decades, and possibly forever.

If we were not in the EU right now, possibly I could be persuaded we should not join. But we are in it, and whether or not we should leave, is a completely different question.

Respect your opinion mate and you've obviously thought about it. But I am in total disagreement with allowing the EU any authority over us and the expansion of the EU sphere of influence, I would pay any price to be removed from it. As the long dead JFK once said "We choose to Brexit in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard" and you can't argue with Marilyn Monroe's boyfriend can you?

 

[Happy Feet]

Sky News reporting a 96% fall in applicants from the EU to work as a nurse in the NHS

 

[dave_blue12]

Yep. That's about the size of it. Brexit was a stupid idea, driven by people rebelling against problems that either did not exist or which were surmountable, and promises of solutions that were never achievable.

• Immigration of both skilled and unskilled young people is needed as our population ages. We should have been figuring out how to increase the capacity of our services to accommodate them, not shut them out. (We still should be, btw)
• We never needed to "take back control" since we already had it. Not a single aspect of our daily lives that really matters, is controlled by the EU. We already control our borders, our defence policy, our fiscal policies; taxing and spending, our NHS, our education policies. Take back control was a lie. We already have it.
• Negotiating a tariff-free trade deal whilst not agreeing to EU principles of free movement etc, was never realistic
• Neither is the idea that on our own we can negotiate better trade deals with e.g. China than the EU can. We have 60m people's buying power as leverage; the EU has 500m.
• Ridiculous to imagine that severely damaging 44% of our trade business would not have terrible consequences for our economy.
• Insane to think we can negotiate the 100's of new trade deals needed, in anything less than decades.
• Therefore almost impossible for new trade deals to make up for the loss of EU trade, in less than decades.

A dismal decision, doomed to failure, foisted upon us by ideologues peddling lies and praying on peoples' fears over immigration.

Absolutely spot on.

If our economy continues on it's current path the downturn could be harnessed to reverse the decision but I'm not sure who is going to ride that particular horse.

 

[ganganvince]

Sky News reporting a 96% fall in applicants from the EU to work as a nurse in the NHS

Perhaps we had better start training some British ones then, must be some interest with current salary from £21 to £35 pa. Strange how EU countries manage to train a surplus and are able to prop up our NHS whilst we can't attract enough or are the entrance requirements different.

 

[City Raider]

Sky News reporting a 96% fall in applicants from the EU to work as a nurse in the NHS

It's a double whammy because the nursing bursary is being replaced by a loan system. Apparently a 25% drop in home based applicants. To say nursing is on the verge of collapse is not hysteria.

 

[CitizenTID]

Sturgeon is calling for a 4 nation approach.

I don't know if you've noticed Nicola, but we've been one nation (politically speaking) for 310 years. That's nearly x7 as many years as you've been alive. Now crawl back up into your bagpipe.

 

[CitizenTID]

Sky News reporting a 96% fall in applicants from the EU to work as a nurse in the NHS

You sure? I heard it as a record number of applicants on the headline though I may need recalibrating.

If so - pity, they may have to start investing in the training of people that are already here.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Respect your opinion mate and you've obviously thought about it. But I am in total disagreement with allowing the EU any authority over us and the expansion of the EU sphere of influence, I would pay any price to be removed from it. As the long dead JFK once said "We choose to Brexit in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard" and you can't argue with Marilyn Monroe's boyfriend can you?

I respect your opinion too mate. So I'd be interested in why you hold this view?

You see, there's nothing I do in my daily life that I can think of, where the EU adversely affects me. I guess if you are a fisherman you'd think differently, but I am not a fisherman and guess you aren't either?

However, there's PLENTY of things the UK government does which interfere with my life on a daily basis. So it's a puzzle to me as to why people feel so strongly about not being subject to some additional EU laws? Laws by the way, which in the vast majority of cases, the UK voted in favour of!

But even if we did lose a load of sovereignty, so what? We are all Europeans and European laws are made with the aim of making Europe a better place. It's not like only British politicians are capable of good decisions! You'd be forgiven for arguing the exact opposite!

So in summary, I can see no real benefit from leaving and nothing but absolute dreadful downside consequences. If we could leave or join at the snap of your fingers without all the loss of trade and debilitating upheaval, then OK. But we can't. We have to go through years of crap, and when you think about it, for what exactly?

OT: I hear the number of EU nurses applying to come and work in the NHS has dropped by over 90% since the referendum. Read it and weep, dropped by 90%. That'll help, not.

EDIT: I see that's been quoted about too.

 

[CitizenTID]

Why are the EU so concerned with keeping freedom of movement (permanent residence) with free trade? I see no correlation.

Why did they not consider freedom of movement (temporary residence up to x no. of months) or, now with security concerns - freedom of movement for only those whose industries heavily benefit from it (EU and UK), such as touring productions (aka. they apply for a EU wide visa pass for so many months with evidence of why needed, in advance).

It does feel very much like a globalist agenda where they want permanent residence available to people that have no connection with the potential country.

 

[cibaman]

Respect your opinion mate and you've obviously thought about it. But I am in total disagreement with allowing the EU any authority over us and the expansion of the EU sphere of influence, I would pay any price to be removed from it. As the long dead JFK once said "We choose to Brexit in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard" and you can't argue with Marilyn Monroe's boyfriend can you?

Flying to the moon was much easier than getting a good brexit deal.

 

[Len Rum]

We're already a laughing stock in Europe and now we've got the fiasco of the delay to the Queen's speech and start of Brexit negotiations because of a lack of goatskin.
Unbelievable Jeff.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

I respect your opinion too mate. So I'd be interested in why you hold this view?

You see, there's nothing I do in my daily life that I can think of, where the EU adversely affects me. I guess if you are a fisherman you'd think differently, but I am not a fisherman and guess you aren't either?

However, there's PLENTY of things the UK government does which interfere with my life on a daily basis. So it's a puzzle to me as to why people feel so strongly about not being subject to some additional EU laws? Laws by the way, which in the vast majority of cases, the UK voted in favour of!

But even if we did lose a load of sovereignty, so what? We are all Europeans and European laws are made with the aim of making Europe a better place. It's not like only British politicians are capable of good decisions! You'd be forgiven for arguing the exact opposite!

So in summary, I can see no real benefit from leaving and nothing but absolute dreadful downside consequences. If we could leave or join at the snap of your fingers without all the loss of trade and debilitating upheaval, then OK. But we can't. We have to go through years of crap, and when you think about it, for what exactly?

OT: I hear the number of EU nurses applying to come and work in the NHS has dropped by over 90% since the referendum. Read it and weep, dropped by 90%. That'll help, not.

EDIT: I see that's been quoted about too.

I want to blame my politicians who I voted for take the blame and the credit for whatever ails the country I want to hold them directly and personally responsible. I can quote examples of useless edicts from the EU like the crap lightbulbs and the prevention of not recycling teabags but these are easily circumvented household by household.

Here is a small list I have picked a paper that is a bit left leaning to try to be impartial.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...eu-laws-we-will-miss-in-britain-a7103031.html

Now don't get me wrong I am not suggesting for one minute that our own governments don't make laws that are absurd or unworkable but at least they are made by a government I elected and have a voice to remove. The looming notion of an EU military and Merkel banging the drum for even more political and legal integration which would effectively ensure our position as a servile state which will in effect be at the whim of whatever barmpot holds control in Brussels.

Immigration and the free movement of any EU citizen to this country undercuts pay conditions and rights of British citizens even Corbyn has reflected on that publicly and has stated that these conditions need reworking, it all depends on how the EU react to proposals but that doesn't look good because all Cameron got was a smacked backside, the inference is that if you're in it you're in it lock stock and barrel.

As for nurses? We need to train more, improve working conditions and actually employ staff for the NHS strategically as and when we need them IF we don't have the qualified staff we have trained ourselves. The NHS needs work we know that and it's our government that needs to stop blowing smoke and deliver on realistic targets for British trained NHS staff at all levels.

Lastly I am a patriot but a weird combination of being labelled a "Little Englander" but with a real social conscience, I would gladly lose some of my not very affluent lifestyle to improve the lot of other British people but at the same time love my flag (I know it's socially considered to be akin to being a Nazi by some) this doesn't make me a scoundrel as the famous quote suggests, it makes me a product of my time of birth and environment mixed with a cultural need of belonging.

In short I don't trust the EU bureaucrats and I don't trust our career politicians who themselves have feathered their own nests for too long, but at least I have the veneer of democracy that affords me a skewed attempt at removing villains when I see them from our democratic process. I'm English-British-UK and strange as it seems I want to keep that and work through any problems that arise as and when they pop up.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Flying to the moon was much easier than getting a good brexit deal.

As was copping off with Ms Monroe :)

 

[jay_mcfc]

What a fucking shambles this has all become. I have no idea who or how the UK can negotiate its way through Brexit now.

And it seems emigration not immigration will be a bigger problem post Brexit.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

The NMC are suggesting that there are fewer registrations because of the introduction of the English language testing.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I can see a situation re the EU where we end up paying more than we do now and getting about 0.1% return on it!

 

[CitizenTID]

The NMC are suggesting that there are fewer registrations because of the introduction of the English language testing.

How do they expect effectively to fix someone's ills if they can't communicate in their language