Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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CitizenTID said:
RE: The political chat about cuts surrounding the London fire incident (that is being kept out of that thread) - the Greater Manchester Fire & Rescue chief was saying at the time of the enormous cuts they were looking at (a few years ago) that he was going to make the point to them that it was putting the public at risk. Pretty sure he said they wouldn't be able to cover what they needed across Greater Manchester.

So I think this London fire is a legitimate thing to discuss in the context of public services cuts. We've seen now the enormous pressures and failings in police, health and fire now. Utterly shameful from this Tory Govt. imo.
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I have seen elsewhere that in the past 5 years fire deaths in Greater London are down 20% - not sure how accurate this is though.

I did hear on LBC that following the Lakanal House fire in 2009 and the scathing comments of the coroner some review was done and a report issued to Government with recommendations such as retro fitting all tower blocks with sprinkler systems and central fire alarm systems. Its alleged that the cost was seen as prohibitive under austerity measures as Local Govt would ask for shedloads of cash to cover it at a time when the govt was cutting their money so the minister responsible for Housing and Planning sat on it. Who was he? Step forward Gavin Barwell - the guy Theresa May has judged to be astute enough to be her new senior adviser. If true then we have austerity - deaths and Mays judgement called into question - again.
 
CitizenTID said:
RE: The political chat about cuts surrounding the London fire incident (that is being kept out of that thread) - the Greater Manchester Fire & Rescue chief was saying at the time of the enormous cuts they were looking at (a few years ago) that he was going to make the point to them that it was putting the public at risk. Pretty sure he said they wouldn't be able to cover what they needed across Greater Manchester.

So I think this London fire is a legitimate thing to discuss in the context of public services cuts. We've seen now the enormous pressures and failings in police, health and fire now. Utterly shameful from this Tory Govt. imo.
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I've heard it all now.

Tories, the anti fire-service party. Good grief.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, you wouldn't. You'd just resort to insults or some other dismissive shite because you are not prepared to listen to anyone. You're a waste of my time.

Throw in the odd "hmmmm, you have a point" type comments, say 1 in every 1,000 and perhaps I might start to take you a bit seriously. Until then, no.
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Have a point and I might.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've heard it all now.

Tories, the anti fire-service party. Good grief.
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Given the on going tragedy it is legitimate to ask why this happened and if there were measures not taken that could have prevented it occurring. If it is fire service cuts, non implementation of fire regs, budget cuts, service companies skimping and cutting corners, local and national government refusing to acknowledge resident concerns or a combination of reasons then it all needs to be dragged out into the open to ensure it doesn't happen again. I don't care who it harms politically just make damn sure it is not repeated
 
cleavers said:
Except its not being kept out of thread at all, apart from 1 post, the only ones removed are the ones with petty bickering, a reasonable request was made to keep it non political, the one post removed wasn't "reasonable".

This though is the correct thread for political argument so well done.
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Sorry from a quick look looked like people wanted news only so replied to that discussion here instead
 
Monkfish said:
You think the Tories are pro any public service? Really? Not sure too many public servants agree
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I think they are pro "getting us out of the shit the last government left us in". Something that some people on here seem to have forgotten all about.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I read the original ("capitalism is about wealth creation for all") to mean "everyone can become wealthy" not "everyone will have the same wealth" or "will be wealthy".
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You can interpret the original post however you wish.

But your statement is also incorrect, it assumes that capitalism is a zero sum game, it isn't.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've heard it all now.

Tories, the anti fire-service party. Good grief.
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That's a different conclusion than what I used.

This austerity policy is failing on all fronts - that's why I blamed the Tories for the all major services operating at the brink. They could have enacted that policy without putting people at risk but they went too far.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think they are pro "getting us out of the shit the last government left us in". Something that some people on here seem to have forgotten all about.
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A recession caused by the banks - mainly from the US side wasn't it? In either case quit the fucking bullshit, it's all Tory politicians have come out with this last election campaign and every single thing they've said about the opposition has been proved lies, hypocrisy and myth making. It's past the point of embarrassing.

There are intertwining threads of issues that result in an economy not doing too well and to blame it all on the last government is very blinkered. In reference to them "getting us out of the shit the last government left us is" - it's funny how the find they manage to find the billions of pounds for things they want that aren't critical isn't it?
 
Not my work, but agree with all this...

Feels like one of those step-change moments. Grenfell fire has all the threads

Huge amounts of inequality in one of the country's richest boroughs

Emergency services cut by austerity staffed with brave workers who haven't had a pay rise in years running towards danger

Work that used to be public sector being contracted out to a private sector and shareholders demanding a profit

A government that has repeatedly kicked into touch better housing regulation as "unnecessary red tape"

People shouting "don't politicise this tragedy" as if whether people preventably burn to death in their houses isn't a matter for the state
 
Monkfish said:
So it's Nick Cleggs fault. Remarkable
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Bloody Lib Dems :)

I still enjoy Cameron's tweet from 2015 stating a vote for him was a vote for stability and a vote for red Ed was a vote for chaos. Whatever you say about our Dave he had a cracking sense of humour.
 
Monkfish said:
Not my work, but agree with all this...

Feels like one of those step-change moments. Grenfell fire has all the threads

Huge amounts of inequality in one of the country's richest boroughs

Emergency services cut by austerity staffed with brave workers who haven't had a pay rise in years running towards danger

Work that used to be public sector being contracted out to a private sector and shareholders demanding a profit

A government that has repeatedly kicked into touch better housing regulation as "unnecessary red tape"

People shouting "don't politicise this tragedy" as if whether people preventably burn to death in their houses isn't a matter for the state
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Let's hope it is a step-change moment. Shames us all that it requires a tragedy to make it so.
 
CitizenTID said:
A recession caused by the banks - mainly from the US side wasn't it? In either case quit the fucking bullshit, it's all Tory politicians have come out with this last election campaign and every single thing they've said about the opposition has been proved lies, hypocrisy and myth making. It's past the point of embarrassing.

There are intertwining threads of issues that result in an economy not doing too well and to blame it all on the last government is very blinkered. In reference to them "getting us out of the shit the last government left us is" - it's funny how the find they manage to find the billions of pounds for things they want that aren't critical isn't it?
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No, you cut the "fucking bullshit". I am sick to death people moaning about how fucking awful everything is and how we should spend more on X, more on Y, moron Z. The morons.

We had a deficit before the crash of 2007/8. And yes Gordon had to find the money to bail out the banks, or we'd all be fucked. Completely fucked. Even lefties agree there was no alternative.

And having bailed them out, he left us with the highest deficit of ALL major economies. We were teetering on the point of being Greece. It's so easy to be critical of the Tories not spending enough on everything, but we couldn't increase taxes, since it would destroy any hope of a recovery and we couldn't increase debt from what was already very high levels and rising fast, like £170bn a year fast.

The is the very inconvenient truth that Labour supporter are just not interesting in hearing.

Just fucking spend it anyway, is not the answer.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, you cut the "fucking bullshit". I am sick to death people moaning about how fucking awful everything is and how we should spend more on X, more on Y, moron Z. The morons.

We had a deficit before the crash of 2007/8. And yes Gordon had to find the money to bail out the banks, or we'd all be fucked. Completely fucked. Even lefties agree there was no alternative.

And having bailed them out, he left us with the highest deficit of ALL major economies. We were teetering on the point of being Greece. It's so easy to be critical of the Tories not spending enough on everything, but we couldn't increase taxes, since it would destroy any hope of a recovery and we couldn't increase debt from what was already very high levels and rising fast, like £170bn a year fast.

The is the very inconvenient truth that Labour supporter are just not interesting in hearing.

Just fucking spend it anyway, is not the answer.
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But May's latest soundbite is 'an end to austerity' isn't it? So maybe there's a school of thought that spending can stimulate a stagnant economy and reduce the deficit that way...
 
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