Eliaquim Mangala

[RandomJ]

From the few games I saw Valencia against he big 3, Mangala looked fine on the ball and was a rock in the back.

I'd like for him to get a chance, but doubt it under Pep.

I wonder what Mangala's passing stats last year for Valencia are compared to the likes of Kolarov/Otamendi.

Mangala 83%
Kolarov 84%
Otamendi 88%
Stones 91%

 

[BlueisCity]

Mangala 83%
Kolarov 84%
Otamendi 88%
Stones 91%

Thanks, gonna assume thats with 20 less passes compared to the other 3. I do remember seeing something where his long ball passing was similar to Kolarov's in completion with how Pep likes the deep balls sprayed up the field.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

Lets not even try and comoare mangala and stones, they are a world apart. Stones was outstanding towards the end of the season and showed what he is all about, mangala has never shown anything because he is shit...and i mean smalling rojo shit.

In his debut game, Mangala played at a level I have never seen from Stones. Don't get me wrong, Mangala isn't the answer, problem is, I don't think Stones is either.

 

[RandomJ]

Thanks, gonna assume thats with 20 less passes compared to the other 3. I do remember seeing something where his long ball passing was similar to Kolarov's in completion with how Pep likes the deep balls sprayed up the field.

I'm not sure about that. Passing is not what Mangala is known for and his first touch is heavy which would land us in the shit when the keeper and the defenders are playing it out from the back. Mangala is physical, fast and good in the air. I'm sure there is a team out there that would suit him but it sure isn't Pep's team.

 

[cucumberman]

Make of it what you will. Kompany's stats from when he last had consistency of starting games.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Stones fucks up TERMINALLY 'now & again' & him doing so has helped knock us out of the Champions League.

No way would Mangala, or Lescott for that matter, cost us more goals or near disasters by giving the ball away.

Pep obviously likes every player to be 'comfortable' on the ball, which is not something Lescott or Mangala would be. However, the 'comfortable' Stones has so far imo, had a completely insignificant effect on our ability going forward, but a very significant effect on our ability going backwards.

The amount we have gained so far, by Stones so called breakthrough runs or passes, is next to nothing. The extra 10% of square balls to his central partner or underweighted pass backs to the keeper or fullback, compared to Managala or Lescott playing the same pass, does not weigh favourably compared to having someone who will kick the ball into row Z rather than casually pinch it from Falcao's toe, or lump it into the oppo corner flag rather than passing to the oppo cf in injury time.

It's all well & good in theory. In practice, it's often shite & Mangala would be slaughtered & written off as 'not good enough on the ball' for the exact same mistakes.

Stones is getting away with it due to 'potential' .

That's a pretty pointless and unquantifiable observation in all honesty. How do you measure what constitutes a significant effect on our ability going forward and how many breakthrough runs or passes has any of our centre halves made (or indeed any centre half in the Premier League)? Breakthrough passes are the almost exclusive domain of midfield players, and what constitutes a 'breakthrough pass' for a centre half anyway?
As to the unfavourable comparison with defenders given to hoofing the ball into row Z, what do you imagine Stone's brief is from Pep? Try and play it out or bladder it into touch at the first sign of danger?
As to Mangala or Lescott not costing us more goals or near disasters, well in a conventional defensive set up there may be an argument for that, but under Pep I'd suggest that would be wishful thinking. I haven't forgotten Lescott's rabbit in the headlights routine in the Amsterdam Arena yet, and that was 4 years ago

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Totally different players.

Mangala has no authority on the ball, when he gets it he treats it much the same as a hot potato.

Stones is calmness personified and whilst he has made errors, it's as clear as the nose on my face (and it's big) that he will make it in a Guardiola team.

There are clear differences. It's why John will stay and feature and why Mangala will be on his bike.

That they make similar mistakes at the moment simply isn't relevant.

It will be coached out of stones

Is the right answer

 

[blue cigar]

Don't recall him playing towards the end of the season? Pretty sure we went with Ota and Kompany and were defensively solid for a change?

Before he picked up an injury, he was flawless and full of confidence.

 

[Neville Kneville]

That's a pretty pointless and unquantifiable observation in all honesty. How do you measure what constitutes a significant effect on our ability going forward and how many breakthrough runs or passes has any of our centre halves made (or indeed any centre half in the Premier League)? Breakthrough passes are the almost exclusive domain of midfield players, and what constitutes a 'breakthrough pass' for a centre half anyway?
As to the unfavourable comparison with defenders given to hoofing the ball into row Z, what do you imagine Stone's brief is from Pep? Try and play it out or bladder it into touch at the first sign of danger?
As to Mangala or Lescott not costing us more goals or near disasters, well in a conventional defensive set up there may be an argument for that, but under Pep I'd suggest that would be wishful thinking. I haven't forgotten Lescott's rabbit in the headlights routine in the Amsterdam Arena yet, and that was 4 years ago

How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.

Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.

 

[john blue]

How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.

Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.[/QUOTE

How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.

Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.

every game I watch him . you KNOW he will drop a bollock. !

 

[BigOscar]

How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.

Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.

Yeah but doesn't he look calm and composed while under hitting that pass?

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

How do you quantify it ? By watching him. It's not even difficult. Five paces forwards, look.around turn back, underhit pass to partner.

Also, if we're talking about Amsterdam, how about our 'ball playing' cbs at Celtic or Leicester etc ? Again, different rules for one compared to another.

Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub, mistakes or no mistakes

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Don't recall him playing towards the end of the season? Pretty sure we went with Ota and Kompany and were defensively solid for a change?

Ha ha, good luck selling that. That upturn in solidity owed everything to Kompany and very little to Otamendi. Who's to say Stones wouldn't look good alongside Kompany too

 

[Neville Kneville]

Yeah but doesn't he look calm and composed while under hitting that pass?

Absolutely. Like Paul Futcher.

Obviously Pep prefers the Stones type defender to a Lescott or Mangala, but I can't accept this notion that because Stones 'can' potentially knock the ball around, it automatically figures that he does & that when he makes an almighty arse of something, it's ok because it's Stones & he's going to be G.O.D. 'next year' (like Liverpool).

He was a liability quite often for Everton & it was supposed to be his breakthrough, taking him away from all those nasty defender types & working for Pep. But he was just the same & ended up out of our team as he did Everton's.

He may make the breakthrough this season & become World class. But so far, he is no great improvement on the Mangler & imo both would have been at a similar level last season as far as reliability goes.

Kompany is key to Stones making that leap imo. You can't coach out mistakes but the player can learn.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub.

Well I can't even remember who his last game was against but I guarantee if you watch him, you will see him do exactly what I said, & from the same position, in the time it takes Stones to thijk, Kompany will be pinging one touch passes to the attack.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Well you obviously 'watch' something different to me. Lescott never had to play in a defence anywhere near as exposed as City's under Pep in his entire career, never mind give and receive the ball under a ton of pressure as a matter of routine, so not 'different rules', just a bullshit comparison.
Lescott was a good old fashioned 4-4-2 defender, who liked to defend in and around his own box. In terms of what Pep wants however, Stones is way ahead of him and that's the rub, mistakes or no mistakes

Also, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.

 

[mccity]

Also, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.

Whilst I agree he's not as good at defending as Lescott the idea that he's only marginally better on the ball is far-fetched. Lescott wasn't even close to being good enough on the ball for Mancini; Stones is good enough for Guardiola. He's a lot better on the ball.

Anyway this is the Mangala thread. Never had a problem with the guy, he just doesn't fit the system Guardiola's going for. He'll be good wherever he goes so I don't think we need to be selling him on the cheap.

 

[BigOscar]

Also, no he isn't. He is about 10% better on the ball & 20% worse at everything else.

Harsh on Lescott, he was at least twice the defender Stones currently is. Probably not half the passer either mind, he was pretty horrendous with anyone near him

 

[Neville Kneville]

Whilst I agree he's not as good at defending as Lescott the idea that he's only marginally better on the ball is far-fetched. Lescott wasn't even close to being good enough on the ball for Mancini; Stones is good enough for Guardiola. He's a lot better on the ball.

Anyway this is the Mangala thread. Never had a problem with the guy, he just doesn't fit the system Guardiola's going for. He'll be good wherever he goes so I don't think we need to be selling him on the cheap.

But he isn't good enough for Pep, nowhere near.

The idea is he is supposed to become good enough. Right now, he just does what Lescott did, plays it safe, with an extra 10% of quality on top. Then gives a goal away.

Lescott had a reasonable passing record, he just didn't do anything expansive. Mangala imo could do the same, if his defensive capabilities were considered good enough.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Harsh on Lescott, he was at least twice the defender Stones currently is. Probably not half the passer either mind, he was pretty horrendous with anyone near him

He was actually very decent at keeping possession , just limited in forward passing. The crowd was usually more concerned about what might happen with Lescott, than what actually happened. In this team, he would have much more options but I agree he is not the ideal player.

But right now, neither is Stones. He needs to become that right now imo. Not in two years.

Otherwise he is no real improvement on the Mangler or Otamendi.