It's Quiet - a new dawn

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yeah whatever !! said:
Shay was number 1, joe went to Birmingham and was player of the year..he went on loan for proper prem experience.. In at the deep end so to speak..they were if I remember favourites to go straight back down. baptism of fire that Joe stood up to.
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Then he came back & single handly saved us from at least a 6-0 battering as spurs 1st game of season
 
grim up north said:
All part of the whole game, keep posting shite and you will get picked up on it
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Some anal fuckers on here lol. You're nitpicking. I don't wish to go into great detail, I watched all the games and formed my opinion. Looks like he's being replaced this season so that should tell everyone all they need to know about Claudio bravo in a city shirt it's as simple as that really.
 
oakiecokie said:
Well we always got the ball back and had possession .... every time we conceded.
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Am I the only one who sees a gk's distribution as a nice extra and not something you trade off against such talents as actually making saves? Lol it's lovely watching a keeper stroke the ball around like Zidane in his prime but not if the last 12 shots on target have been goals.
 
NorCalBlue said:
That's probably just total goals conceded from set pieces, and since we didn't present other teams with that many set pieces, it may not be as impressive as it seems. It would be more relevant to look at the percentage of set-pieces leading to goals. If we're amongst the league's best in that category, then fair play.
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SWP's back said:
Go on. Prove we didn't concede many compared with other teams as I'm calling that bullshit.
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I was merely making the point that some numbers might be misleading, and if there's going to be a proper discussion, no one should be afraid of more data (however it turns out). I have no agenda - I thought my last sentence would make that clear.

However, you did succeed in goading me into wasting a couple of hours searching for data... Not that I was able to find the exact stats to answer the question I was asking, but I did find some information that's probably relevant.

First of all, the point I was making was that just assuming we were good at defending set pieces because we didn't concede many goals from set pieces is like saying our goalkeepers were shit because they made fewer saves than any other teams' goalkeepers (64 total compared to 176 for Sunderland - that proves Pickford was sh*t hot, right?). The more relevant stat for saves would be percentage of shots saved, just like the more relevant stat for set piece goals conceded would be percentage of set-pieces from which we conceded a goal.

The next point is that according to WhoScored we actually conceded more goals from set pieces than Arsenal, Chelsea, United, and Spurs (and WBA), and were only 13th best at scoring from set pieces (but that's a different discussion). That puts us near the top in terms of fewest conceded, but still doesn't show how effective our defence was at defending set pieces.

The only stat I could find that might help is the number of corners conceded, and that shows that we conceded fewer corners than any other team last season (3.45 per game - from Corner-stats.com). I wish I had numbers for free kicks around the box as well, but as I don't, I don't think it's unreasonable to correlate the number of corners conceded with the number of set pieces conceded, since both relate to the amount of pressure the defence is under. So, if you use corners as a proxy for set pieces, then you can come up with a ratio of number of corners to goals conceded from set pieces, which should be a reasonable guide to how well we defended set-pieces last season. Our number comes out to 1 set piece goal conceded for every 14.5 corners conceded, which ranks 15th in the league (Watford, Hull, Southamptom, Palace, and Liverpool, in that order, round out the bottom - Liverpool conceded 1 set piece goal for every 11 corners conceded). Arsenal were top with 1 per 31 corners conceded, and Chelsea (1:23), United (1:21), and Spurs (1:19.5) were all in the top 6 (along with WBA and Burnley).

Of course this analysis is far from definitive and doesn't answer any questions about Bravo v Willy, but it's far better than just considering numbers of goals conceded from set-pieces, and suggests that we absolutely did have defensive issues when it came to set pieces last season. It also suggests that despite this, we can still all laugh at Liverpool.
 
slicky202 said:
Am I the only one who sees a gk's distribution as a nice extra and not something you trade off against such talents as actually making saves? Lol it's lovely watching a keeper stroke the ball around like Zidane in his prime but not if the last 12 shots on target have been goals.
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Bravo was shocking saving any sort of ball that game low to either side of him.Have to agree with you ref a goalies main trait which is actually saving a ball but it appears Pep wants more than that.
 
oakiecokie said:
Bravo was shocking saving any sort of ball that game low to either side of him.Have to agree with you ref a goalies main trait which is actually saving a ball but it appears Pep wants more than that.
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It's ok wanting more but not one at the expense of the other. The game against the rags when he did the cruyff turn then gave shrek (I think it was) a leg breaker. Absolutely ludicrous scenes.
 
Joe hart was average, bravo is shit, these two surely can't be defended or argued about, it really is that simple.
No fucker really wants hart, the whole league has cocked their sides at bravo and I'd be glad if they were both gone.
 
Not wanting to get dragged in to this Bravo pissing contest, but im sure i saw he had one of the worst percentages for stopping on target shots. No matter if your defence allows 10 or 100 on target shots, the higher the percentage that are stopped will be key to determining the success of a goalie
 
KCblue said:
That performance Joe had against Dortmund at home was incredible. We had no business being in that game and he earned us a point
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It was unreal mate, it was weird because i'd started getting used to us being almost unbeatable at home & then they turned up that night & took us to the cleaners, i haven't seen us dominated at home to that extent ever since,joe saved us from prob a 6 or 7-1 defeat that night
 
burnley blue mcfc said:
It was unreal mate, it was weird because i'd started getting used to us being almost unbeatable at home & then they turned up that night & took us to the cleaners, i haven't seen us dominated at home to that extent ever since,joe saved us from prob a 6 or 7-1 defeat that night
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It was a shock as at that time not much was known about Dortmund and we were chasing shadows, if not for Hart we would have been hammered. For a while he was the best keeper in the country and probably one of the top six in the world. No idea where it started to go wrong but there are a lot of rumours of stuff behind the scenes. Bravo has been a disaster and just hasn't worked.
 
burnley blue mcfc said:
It was unreal mate, it was weird because i'd started getting used to us being almost unbeatable at home & then they turned up that night & took us to the cleaners, i haven't seen us dominated at home to that extent ever since,joe saved us from prob a 6 or 7-1 defeat that night
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And Gundogan was the orchestrator, absolutely brilliant .. really got fingers crossed he gets back to that form for us
 
KCblue said:
That performance Joe had against Dortmund at home was incredible. We had no business being in that game and he earned us a point
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one against Barcelona was better. he saved like 10 one on one sitters. he used to be great on one on one situations.
 
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