It's Quiet - a new dawn

[The Doctor]

Sshh isn't it quiet? Don't know which thread to check!
Airport watch been stood down business all but done and not yet 1st August never mind 31st.
If it stops now I think we've had a good window but suspect we are not done yet.
Any additions now are in my view a bonus gives us a chance to use the academy graduates like Tosin & Cameron & Phil & Brahim et al.
C'mon you Blues!

 

[Bilboblue]

well im 42 years old so wasn't bed-wetting exactly, yes i was disappointed i admit, but im big enough and ugly enough, not too wet the bed or flap like a fanny when a potential deal doesn't materialize thank you very much ;-)

Wasn't aimed at you specifically @adr2.8i although if the cap fits.... haha!

 

[Janno]

He might not be, but it's worth a try or two given he's already in the squad. I've not been too impressed with him at CB and we can't write off a near £50m player. The pivot doesn't need to be particularly mobile as that box-to-box element is fulfilled by the two '8's and the full backs (who are now much more dynamic. The pivot just needs to be able to watch the game in front of them and understand where there might be danger or possibilities to overload in attack. I think Stones has a very good football brain, can play a pass and can contain himself to the role (I always worry about Toure or Gundogan wandering upfield and Fernandinho putting out fires a long way from his position). I don't think the pivot actually requires a technically brilliant player (Bayern certainly had better technical players than Lahm, and Barcelona Busquets), but a player with the greatest understanding of understanding, digesting and strategising about what the current state of affairs is on the field.

Kind of like how the best battlefield generals needn't be the best fighters.

Lahm was one of the smartest and most technically gifted players on Pep's Bayern, he transitioned into that role seamlessly despite playing RB almost his entire career, and was often chosen over Kroos in that role even while both were fit. An organizing midfielder in Pep's system has to be the smartest and probably the most technically consistent and composed (bar the GK) player on the pitch, something Stones is not and probably will never be ready for, but I could be wrong.

 

[CityStu]

I'd rather play kompany there again instead of stones. Stones will not be played in midfield ever so stop with the nonsense.

Nah, Kompany's too headstrong. He'd move out of position if an opportunity to win the ball arose.

If Stones played as the pivot he'd try to dribble out of pressure. You can't do that in that position. You'll get caught. He even got caught a few times at CB. Even Danilo would probably be better at the pivot than Stones.

Stones attempted 22 dribbles in 27 games last season (of which 21 were successful, but that's not really the point), or 1 dribble per 90 minutes. Gundogan, Toure and Fernandinho (who tended to share the pivot role) had 1.8, 1.5 and 1.2 dribbles per 90 mins respectively. Stones also made just as many accurate short passes per 90 as Gundogan and Fernandinho.

 

[doobyedoobye]

And a second LB?

I can see those two costing us 150 million GBP... The narrative that Manchester City turned their players heads and the obscene offers made were simply too ridiculously good to turn down... Maybe Danilo will cover LB..? VVD already banished from their tour.... And so it begins...?

 

[J_MCFC21]

I can see those two costing us 150 million GBP... The narrative that Manchester City turned their players heads and the obscene offers made were simply too ridiculously good to turn down... Maybe Danilo will cover LB..? VVD already banished from their tour.... And so it begins...?

Mbappe/ Dembele + Left Sided cheap(ish) CB for me < IF that player even exists >

Would like Sanchez but i'm not so sure. Sanchez would allow for us to sign a quality CB however..if the 150m is what we are working with :D

 

[domalino]

He might not be, but it's worth a try or two given he's already in the squad. I've not been too impressed with him at CB and we can't write off a near £50m player. The pivot doesn't need to be particularly mobile as that box-to-box element is fulfilled by the two '8's and the full backs (who are now much more dynamic. The pivot just needs to be able to watch the game in front of them and understand where there might be danger or possibilities to overload in attack. I think Stones has a very good football brain, can play a pass and can contain himself to the role (I always worry about Toure or Gundogan wandering upfield and Fernandinho putting out fires a long way from his position). I don't think the pivot actually requires a technically brilliant player (Bayern certainly had better technical players than Lahm, and Barcelona Busquets), but a player with the greatest understanding of understanding, digesting and strategising about what the current state of affairs is on the field.

Kind of like how the best battlefield generals needn't be the best fighters.

You want him to play in midfield because you don't rate him at CB, but there's no reason to think Pep doesn't rate him at CB. There's also nothing to suggest Pep would move someone he didn't rate at CB into midfield, the position he's on record as claiming to be the most important and the place to put your best footballers.

Also, similarly, he moved Lahm to pivot because he saw he was the smartest footballer he had, who saw the game so clearly he could do all the stuff a pivot has to do in his teams - direct attacks, switch play, beat the press, transition from attack to defence etc. It took him about a month when Lahm was at fullback to see those attributes.

If he thought Stones had that ability, he'd have put him at midfield already because he'd have seen it in the last year training and working with him - and when he sees that special thing he's looking for in his pivots he tends to try that player there immediately. Did it very quickly with Kimmich too.

 

[doobyedoobye]

Mbappe/ Dembele + Left Sided cheap(ish) CB for me < IF that player even exists >

Would like Sanchez but i'm not so sure. Sanchez would allow for us to sign a quality CB however..if the 150m is what we are working with :D

Pep seems to be fixated on Alexis and I'm hoping Alexis is fixated on Pep. There is zero chance in my eyes he stays at Arsenal to run down his contract, zero. So it's us or PSG or he signs a new deal. VVD wants out of Southampton and is becoming increasingly disruptive too by all accounts..

 

[domalino]

Pep seems to be fixated on Alexis and I'm hoping Alexis is fixated on Pep. There is zero chance in my eyes he stays at Arsenal to run down his contract, zero. So it's us or PSG or he signs a new deal. VVD wants out of Southampton and is becoming increasingly disruptive too by all accounts..

Would be interesting to see if VVD would rather come to us than stay at Suthampton, if Saints just really do not want to sell to liverpool because it's the 6th player in 4 years, or the tapping up thing.

The cost would still be insane though, £60m+

 

[We'reNotReallyHere]

The absolute best thing about this window has to be the crying from fans of other teams. You can literally smell the hate and jealousy, it's amazing.

 

[J_MCFC21]

Pep seems to be fixated on Alexis and I'm hoping Alexis is fixated on Pep. There is zero chance in my eyes he stays at Arsenal to run down his contract, zero. So it's us or PSG or he signs a new deal. VVD wants out of Southampton and is becoming increasingly disruptive too by all accounts..

Id love both VVD and Sanchez, just to see other fans reaction :D, VVD does seemed fixed on Liverpool but maybe him wanting out might lower the price for other clubs? who knows

 

[SebastianBlue]

Uh...when was that said? Because he played in midfield in Barcelona's academy, midfield for Pep at Barca B and was immediately promoted to play midfield for Barca.

He never spent any time at CB except when Barcelona had an injury crisis in 11/12, by which time he had hundreds of appearances in his normal position.

He's always been a midfielder, so I doubt anyone ever said Busquets wasn't one or couldn't play there.

I never said Busquets transitioned from CB to DM so I am not quite sure why you went down that path.

He did, however, play a much less defensive role at La Masia and later for Barca B (I know because I actually watched some of the matches as a young lad travelling from Zaragoza, during my short-lived "I could be a professional footballer" period). He played much more in the manner Yaya does now (ironically, after he left Barca and everyone said he could never be a creative midfielder that drove City forward). Right up until he took hold in Barca's midfield there was quite a bit of debate as to whether Busquets had the tactical nous (and physicality) to play a more defensive role at that time.

His promotion was not "immediate" and I contend that Pep contributed quite a lot to his success in his eventual role, becoming one of the best of all time in my mind.

 

[doobyedoobye]

Would be interesting to see if VVD would rather come to us than stay at Suthampton, if Saints just really do not want to sell to liverpool because it's the 6th player in 4 years, or the tapping up thing.

The cost would still be insane though, £60m+

I think Billyshears posted something eluding to the fact that Mendy potentially wouldn't be the world's most expensive defender come the end of the window and TH mentioned a meltdown would ensue following a certain signing / signings. 150 million split between Sanchez and VVD would comfortably take care of that I reckon.

 

[SebastianBlue]

If Stones played as the pivot he'd try to dribble out of pressure. You can't do that in that position. You'll get caught. He even got caught a few times at CB. Even Danilo would probably be better at the pivot than Stones.

I think you are really overestimating his reliance on his dribbling skills (or decision to employ them,) especially if he was in a different role with different tactical instructions.

 

[CityStu]

You want him to play in midfield because you don't rate him at CB, but there's no reason to think Pep doesn't rate him at CB. There's also nothing to suggest Pep would move someone he didn't rate at CB into midfield, the position he's on record as claiming to be the most important and the place to put your best footballers.

Also, similarly, he moved Lahm to pivot because he saw he was the smartest footballer he had, who saw the game so clearly he could do all the stuff a pivot has to do in his teams - direct attacks, switch play, beat the press, transition from attack to defence etc. It took him about a month when Lahm was at fullback to see those attributes.

If he thought Stones had that ability, he'd have put him at midfield already because he'd have seen it in the last year training and working with him - and when he sees that special thing he's looking for in his pivots he tends to try that player there immediately. Did it very quickly with Kimmich too.

I hypothetically rate him at CB. I think he's an excellent player but he was mistake prone last season, whether that was due to nerves or not. Moving him up the pitch and playing two CBs behind him should allow him more confidence with the ball.

I take your point on board about why not last season though. Maybe because he'd just been bought as a very expensive CB, or maybe because we were without Kompany for so much of the season.

 

[doobyedoobye]

Id love both VVD and Sanchez, just to see other fans reaction :D, VVD does seemed fixed on Liverpool but maybe him wanting out might lower the price for other clubs? who knows

If we now know Mbappe is a no go this window maybe the budget is available for a serious CB. Weren't the stories originally we wouldn't spend 60 million on him? Maybe now we've thought bugger it... let's offer 75 million and get the job done. Also might have helped selling Kola and freeing up some wages....?

 

[SebastianBlue]

You want him to play in midfield because you don't rate him at CB, but there's no reason to think Pep doesn't rate him at CB. There's also nothing to suggest Pep would move someone he didn't rate at CB into midfield, the position he's on record as claiming to be the most important and the place to put your best footballers.

Also, similarly, he moved Lahm to pivot because he saw he was the smartest footballer he had, who saw the game so clearly he could do all the stuff a pivot has to do in his teams - direct attacks, switch play, beat the press, transition from attack to defence etc. It took him about a month when Lahm was at fullback to see those attributes.

If he thought Stones had that ability, he'd have put him at midfield already because he'd have seen it in the last year training and working with him - and when he sees that special thing he's looking for in his pivots he tends to try that player there immediately. Did it very quickly with Kimmich too.

I understand what you are saying but you are also employing the "there are no exceptions or mistakes" fallacy. Your argument can almost entirely be summarised as "Pep immediately sees all, Pep never makes mistakes, Stones will never progress/change, things shall always be thus."

 

[domalino]

I understand what you are saying but you are also employing the "there are no exceptions or mistakes" fallacy. Your argument can almost entirely be summarised as "Pep immediately sees all, Pep never makes a mistakes, Stones will never progress/change, things shall always be thus."

I'm employing the "manager who's worked with a player for a year would know by now if he had the characteristics to play pivot" fallacy.

It can be summarised as "Pep's spent hundreds and hundreds of hours working with Stones, and hasn't seen in him what he took only a few weeks to see in Lahm, Busquets and Kimmich".

 

[J_MCFC21]

If we now know Mbappe is a no go this window maybe the budget is available for a serious CB. Weren't the stories originally we wouldn't spend 60 million on him? Maybe now we've thought bugger it... let's offer 75 million and get the job done. Also might have helped selling Kola and freeing up some wages....?

Mbappe was quoted like 120m start of window, Sanchez around 60m same with VVD...Seen SamLee say we wanted Sanchez and Mbappe but obviously we did not factor Alves going PSG..Not sure how accurate / Realistic getting both would have been but would have been serious money being estimated. Who knows how much more we are yet to spend.

 

[Silva_Spell]

I would be shocked if we can sell Mangala and Nasri. I can see those 2 and Hart being the 3 loanees. Also only think Swansea will pay £8-10m for Bony. Fernando probably only £5m as well.

Was reported earlier that Fernando could be going to Gala for £8m