MCFC U-18's

twosips said:
Thing is, I don't blame Pep, but I also don't blame the young lads either. The culture we've created over here is a very damaging one for young talent and there's no easy fix unless someone actually has the balls to do something bold. Cos what you've said there is basically 'if the time is right for the club, and everything is rosy, then maybe they'll get a chance'....they've got every right to be thinking 'but what about when it's right for me? Not just the club?' It's their careers after all. If the time isn't right for the club, they could never get that chance despite scoring 40 goals a season for the EDS, and that has happened for many young footballers across the u23s in the PL.

It's a head-scratcher, but many people have been saying for 3 years now that if we don't show signs of a real pathway into the first team, we'll start to lose some young lads....and it's now happened with two of the most promising young lads in England. Sancho and Duncan. It happened with Campbell too who is also excellent. We have to sort this. There's only way really - prove it with Foden, Brahim, maybe Muric, Nmecha or Smith. Anyone.
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The thing is, other than Pep’s Barca that was stocked with La Masia players, there aren’t a lot of youth players that debuted for their home club (top clubs) and become top players. Thomas Muller and Saul came to mind, but players like them are few and far in between. Top players like Pique and Carvajal had to go out first before coming back to their home club. Take a look at Barcelona, Madrid, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG, Monaco - home grown ‘Top’ players aren’t that many. It’d be very good for us to have homegrown players in our rotation but I consider having even 1 like Foden for us to be very lucky.
 
Silly thing is that if we'd bought Sancho from Dormund rather than brought him through our system he'd probably be more likely to get a first team game.

Don't know what the answer is but, we need to find one as more & more very good in fact potentiality world class players are going to come through the Academy probably even now too many that need proper game time are ready.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
Silly thing is that if we'd bought Sancho from Dormund rather than brought him through our system he'd probably be more likely to get a first team game.

Don't know what the answer is but, we need to find one as more & more very good in fact potentiality world class players are going to come through the Academy probably even now too many that need proper game time are ready.
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Patrick Roberts springs to mind when you say that about buying Sancho from Dortmund. I think we're reluctant to play anyone unless they have proved themselves in a top league like De Bruyne (or all the players we've bought and play for the first team). The problem is, teams in the top leagues don't want to play our loan players for the same reason, I think the selling on with a buy back is the only real option because the other club wants to profit if they are taking the risk.
 
I think the recent realisation from the club that having our academy teams rampaging over all around them isn’t productive in the long term. I think the new plan of pushing youngsters up against older/better players will help considerably. I'm sure I read our Checkatrade team against Bradford were all 19 or under? I also agree with putting the players out on loans into Spain and Holland is a great idea, playing high level competitive games, we could do with striking up partnerships with German and French outfits as well!

This still doesn’t guarantee a young player will be good enough to get in our side though; they are going to need to be something special to do that at a young age. Kieran Trippier came through our academy, and everyone agrees he did well for England last night, and has been damn good at Spurs, but he is 27, and it’s taken him this long to get that level! He'd never have got the opportunities he's had if he'd stayed at City.
 
The only thing that Worried me about a Pep is what he said about Delph saying he was sorry for not giving him more game time last season especially at fullback position where did struggle. Will this mean he will hold of giving Foden or Diaz starts or game time? Just a thought really about what Pep himself said after Delph playing really Well this season.
 
bluesteel said:
Patrick Roberts springs to mind when you say that about buying Sancho from Dortmund. I think we're reluctant to play anyone unless they have proved themselves in a top league like De Bruyne (or all the players we've bought and play for the first team). The problem is, teams in the top leagues don't want to play our loan players for the same reason, I think the selling on with a buy back is the only real option because the other club wants to profit if they are taking the risk.
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We bought Jesus and threw him straight in and same with Ederson to an extent. Selling with a buy back is a better option than loaning IMO as the clubs have an incentive to develop (or at least play) the players.

I think @twosips is spot on with his promotion analogy in general. I don't blame kids at all for becoming world class U18s at City and then moving onto to a club who'll give them a go in the coming years in their first team. Until we show younger players that there are examples of kids forging a path to the first team, they'll leave.
 
If Foden doesn’t make it at City I don’t know who will. The issue will be when/if we decide not to sign players and instead promote young players. I can imagine an outcry on here and in the media by the lack of summer activity.
It’s also about opportunity and making those chances count.
When Foden/Diaz get a shot at the first team they really need to make it count. I don’t particularly rate Rashford but what he has done is score both for Utd and England in key matches.
 
Foden is our best youth talent so far. Better than Sancho and Diaz.

If he isn't given a chance to make the first team then we should forget the academy as a first team path - it is just a profit machine.

If Foden makes it, or at least given a chance - the door opens to so many possibilities. It proves the path is open, City will benefit hugely.
 
morganporny said:
Foden is our best youth talent so far. Better than Sancho and Diaz.

If he isn't given a chance to make the first team then we should forget the academy as a first team path - it is just a profit machine.

If Foden makes it, or at least given a chance - the door opens to so many possibilities. It proves the path is open, City will benefit hugely.
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I'd argue we want Foden and Maffeo to both be active members of the first team squad next season to prove both paths (multiple loans and direct elevation) to the first team squad work for academy players

Its interesting the ones who've left that we didnt want to (Campbell, Sancho, Duncan) are all attackers. The standard to get into our first team squad as a forward is sky high, a pattern perhaps?
 
Grob said:
I'd argue we want Foden and Maffeo to both be active members of the first team squad next season to prove both paths (multiple loans and direct elevation) to the first team squad work for academy players

Its interesting the ones who've left that we didnt want to (Campbell, Sancho, Duncan) are all attackers. The standard to get into our first team squad as a forward is sky high, a pattern perhaps?
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I had no idea that Duncan had left.
 
I agree that there seems to be an emerging issue here....our academy is superb, but transitions to the first team are not, it would appear, being strategically managed...what exactly is the EDS philosophy?.....I mean within the overall transition planning for EDS players , by the club?
 
Grob said:
I'd argue we want Foden and Maffeo to both be active members of the first team squad next season to prove both paths (multiple loans and direct elevation) to the first team squad work for academy players

Its interesting the ones who've left that we didnt want to (Campbell, Sancho, Duncan) are all attackers. The standard to get into our first team squad as a forward is sky high, a pattern perhaps?
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This...
 
dom said:
I agree that there seems to be an emerging issue here....our academy is superb, but transitions to the first team are not, it would appear, being strategically managed...what exactly is the EDS philosophy?.....I mean within the overall transition planning for EDS players , by the club?
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If that's true that would be a real problem, but I'm not convinced it is. I think there a clear strategy, it's just that we're to early in the process for an ex Academy player to become a match squad regular. But we're just coming to the point now where the players identified 5-10 years ago are getting old enough. Maffeo, Foden, Diaz, Gunn are all very close now imo.

The academy will always produce many more players than we need for our first team. We need, at most, one or two players every couple of years. We don't need a conveyor belt. In any case, most players in the academy won't be good enough. The business model is a cash generator that produces the odd gem saving £10s of millions.

We've lost a few players, that's true, and that has a cost. But taking aside Sancho (and Denis Suarez?), how many players have left or academy for other clubs who might realistically be first team players for us?
 
I think we need to add another step in the process whereby we give players 5/10 minutes here and there before they go on loan. Them having a few first team minutes under their belts will increase the chance of better (PL) loans which will then allow the club to better judge their time away.

For example, if Foden gets a handful of minutes (maybe some cup starts) before the end of the season, there's a strong chance that lower PL clubs will fancy him on loan in the summer (like Palace have taken a few from United and Chelsea).
 
CityStu said:
I think we need to add another step in the process whereby we give players 5/10 minutes here and there before they go on loan. Them having a few first team minutes under their belts will increase the chance of better (PL) loans which will then allow the club to better judge their time away.

For example, if Foden gets a handful of minutes (maybe some cup starts) before the end of the season, there's a strong chance that lower PL clubs will fancy him on loan in the summer (like Palace have taken a few from United and Chelsea).
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You make a good point that Chelsea seem to make more Premier League loans than we do which must help in making the player first team ready.Interestingly the guy that has previously arranged these loans for Chelsea resigned in the last couple of days. The only loan I can think of recently was Jason to Sunderland which was hardly a roaring success.
 
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